FIX HORDE BG QUEUES PLEASE - Worse than R14 grind

I agree, and that’s why I am so vocal about this. The sooner a decision comes, the better. I’ve seen so many rash decisions people make to quit over this or reroll, and it’s only getting worse by the day. It has to be addressed so people can plan accordingly. And I mentioned pservers because they faced the same issues, but the changes made were welcome. Sure, it’s not the same audience and the population is different, but it can serve as a reference point.

Secondly, the handful of Alliance feeling it’s unfair I don’t quite understand. Currently, the queues are imbalanced so if anything, Alliance has all the advantage of gearing up fast and at their leisure instead of having to plan everything around a 1hr BG queue. If Horde gets the same treatment, it is equal, and not unfair. There are still certain OTHER aspects to PvP that are unfair (such as overall racial abilities balance) but those have to be looked at independently. Besides, I argue changing those is a bigger change than giving Horde vs Horde BGs, although I wouldn’t mind certain rebalancing tweaks here and there, I have an open mind.

Then the choice was clearly not that difficult for you. There are many out there that feel connected to their faction, and their character and changing that as the wind goes is breaking the immersion. WoW is still an MMORPG in that sense, especially Classic since it has a lot more RP value and sense of connection and investment in your “main” character. I argue that a game that forces you to either suffer greatly compared to the other faction, or join the other faction is not balanced at all, hence my arguments for change. I assume this is the aspect many disagree with me on, and is also a reason why we can’t find common ground in more detailed arguments.

Some perhaps, others are probably too invested. Either way, a response at the very least would be warranted, to at least be able to make a decision. I for one would never just reroll in a sense of releveling my character. Faction change? Perhaps, if enough of my community would do it with me. Getting an official answer, even if it’s a big fat “NO”, would at least put my mind at ease and I could plan my next action accordingly. I think I share this frustration with many others on these forums. Meanwhile, I am simply proposing ideas I believe would be a good alternative.

The logic is good, but we don’t know how many people that would be. And that’s the crucial point of your argument of it skewing population dramatically to the Horde, to a point where it’s noticeable.
So far however, we can clearly establish the following:

  1. More people play Alliance for PvE than for PvP, hence a change like Horde vs Horde bgs wouldn’t be likely to affect this group

  2. An unknown amount of people have transferred from Horde to Alliance for faster queues. We don’t know how many. So let’s look back a bit; Horde queues were ~20-30min in the latest phases of Classic, implying more Horde PvPed than Alliance. This number inflated, meaning even more joined the Horde to PvP instead of Alliance. Again, we don’t know how many NEW players were among there, but still the trend is there: Horde for PvP.
    IF the queues on Horde were to become as short as on Alliance, some will transfer from Alliance to Horde because that was their preferred faction. Now, THIS is the key population we are talking about. First and foremost, it would likely be smaller than the original population that went Horde>Alliance, because the ones that already went there wouldn’t necessarily GAIN anything from going back to Horde once more, after having rerolled once already. So the remaining fraction of the population that WOULD go BACK to Horde is the population you are worried about. It’s a sound concern perhaps, but we do not know its size, and having observed the trends I just described above, I argue that this particular population is not large enough to influence the faction population balance. I could be wrong, but then again there’s history of WoW as well on my side; despite not having or having mercenary mode throughout the years and many other queue-reducing features such as battlegroups and whatnot, Horde always had longer queues than Alliance in my experience (I played both regularly), implying Horde was always the PvP dominant faction. Taking that fact into consideration next to the rest of what I described, no, I am not convinced your proposed issue is a big issue we should worry about, unless we are provided the numbers that prove my theory wrong. Again, it could be the case but observing recent trends, it is highly unlikely

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But in WOTLK alliance ques where longer then horde due to Every man for himself and that is when faction transfer came in so people took advantage of it.

End of the day, no one knows what will happen as it’s human nature but the logical outcome is that if horde becomes more enticing to play via quicker que times then it will surely increase the divide between horde and alliance representation. Sure we don’t know the exact amount but it will for sure not decrease the amount of players on horde doing PVP.

I don’t fully understand either. It could boil down to being the smaller faction, therefore finding groups for PvE content more difficult. However, while there is small truth in this, it does not justify 1-2 hour queues. Also the ones who are being petty over phase 2, those should get over it.

I don’t recall that. Either I was in a lucky battlegroup, or you were in an unlucky one. I swapped servers (and battlegroups) 3 times during WotLK however and I always had a max queue of 5min. Regardless, it was never as bad as ~1hr consistently

On that we agree. It’s just a question of how many. If it’s less than 5% of the total Alliance population, it probably isn’t a reason fro concern though.

Yeah, that is true. I just want to do my best to try and make the game enjoyable for everyone. I also think Horde being able to enter BGs would lead to less open world ganking (won’t disappear but it’d be less). There’s some insane honor/hr calculations going around now with the queues being this long, and a lot of thirsty Horde stuck in long queues on faction imbalanced PvP servers. I think putting them in BGs quickly would do both factions good, to some extent

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Your personal reasons don’t matter. This is what you get for choosing the faction that was doomed to be more popular in TBC, particularly in BGs.

That said, I wouldn’t mind if they implement paid faction H->A swaps, or even free on some unbalanced servers. They, however, shouldn’t add Horde perks (like Horde vs Horde BGs or more honor gains), because it’ll mess the balance further. If there are some custom #somechanges, they could instead add some extra incentives for Alliance players to queue BGs more.

Here is a possible long term solution, that if hyped enough can be quick one too.

you cant expect people to reroll, i think most people rather stop playing than leveling from fresh

horde v horde is not a perk, its the only way since alliance dont pvp.
Yall just mad cos you suck at pvp go play the game instead of arguing against a fix for a horrible situation

Check my argument above

That’s an interesting proposal if I’ve ever seen one but I see a couple of issues:

  1. It is changing a lot more in the game than just allowing Horde to queue against Horde in BGs, and considering how most people are either strictly nochanges or somechanges (that being only necessary changes to carry out the actual design intention that was in place back in the day), it might not be very well received overall.

  2. It might not solve the issue. If anything it puts the two factions in balance regarding racials, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the PvP activity of overall Alliance will go up by an amount that will reduce Horde queue times by a large margin. It COULD, but it’s far from guaranteed.

Of course, Bub. You can tell Santa that the PvP servers are horde dominated because “many” of you chose horde to play with their friends.

We all know the vast majority of you chose horde because of the PvP advantages and only a small percentage actually chose horde because they like it or because their friends chose horde.

Its your problem, so either cry further or change to alliance if you want to play pvp. Shouldnt be a problem, just tell your friends if they are as frustrated as you. Or do you not want to, because alliance has worse racials?

Nah, now you will come up with the excuse that you dont have time to level up another character, even though you had obviously more than enough time to level up your first character, who cant do any PvP right now, because you and many other people werent intelligent enough to expect this outcome.

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As with rank 14 you have the perfectly viable option not to farm it if you prefer.

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“worse than rank 14 grind” yes, no you are wrong.

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Why can’t i? i did… i had a orc warrior, realised ques was a problem for me so levelled alliance.

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Nothing to fix the game is working as intended.

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How can anyone possibly come and say that “This is what you get for choosing the most advantageous faction in TBC”.

I’ll say it, thats what you get for rolling an overpopulated class…

If you dont like it, the answer is already there, roll Alliance or quit, either way its a small step to fixing the queue for all the others on Horde.

Classic has been about min/maxing everything since it began, and to many it seems min maxing meant having certain advantageous racials. 25% (15%) stun resist, ability to break Fear and be immune for a period of time, those two being the main culprits. Then add in a AoE silence ability.

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They can minmax advantages in pvp but they did not think about minmaxing battleground ques. Only thought half way :3

Indeed the amount of horde on here say they did not choose their race/class combo for racials is astounding, your 100% right they didn’t not even think that so many would do the same and battlegrounds was an afterthought.

Even looking at the representation on arena it’s clear that many did min max

https://drustvar.com/tbc-leaderboard/stats/eu/3v3

This shows that out of all arena games in Europe

30% of the entire playerbase both factions play undead in 3v3 this increases to 32% on 2v2 now that’s alot of players choosing undead for the lore and looks.

The closest to them are human and orc which are similar levels but there are almost half the amount compared to undead.

So to me it’s clear the undead racial is king of arena is it a suprise the horde made up 62% of all arena matches and account for the largest faction queueing battlegrounds.

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Hey @Cruentis

After reading your post and most of your comments we seem to share the same opinion, I’d be interested in your feedback on my posts and opinions here:

Also commented a lot on this idea sharing what seems to be the same logic

We have a guy in our guild who dinged 70 at his human rogue few days ago. What’s so special about him? Well he is a small streamer and a Horde main. He was leveling rogue alt on our PvE server to avoid ganks on alt from his fellow Horde from Flamegor (our region’ PvP Megarealm with others 3 dead allready), while sitting in queues on his forsaken rogue.

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