Some thoughts on fixing M+ so people come back and also play more.
Mythic Zero as a Tutorial (LFG Mode)
Make Mythic 0 a tutorial tier, sitting between Heroic and Mythic 1.
Add simple visual guides (signs/markers) to show routes, enemies, and bosses.
This gives new players a safe way to learn Mythic+ while still earning some basic gear.
Mythic+ Made Easier and More Accessible at the start
Remove Timers and Keys**
Eliminate the timer system and the need for keys.
This removes two of the biggest sources of stress and failure especially for disabled players (like me) who find timers punishing.
Progression Through the Delves System
Progression is linear: clear a +1, you unlock +2. Clear +2, you unlock +3, and so on.
Encourages steady growth and weekly group play (e.g. âI run +5s every week come join meâ).
Helps build friendships and consistent groups since players can stay at the same level or push higher together.
Difficulty Through Affixes
Each season has 12 affixes. Every run rolls 4 random ones.
Add âhardâ versions of affixes for greater challenge (1/4 can apply to a single run).
Seasonal goals:
Clear all 8 dungeons at high level with the toughest affix combinations.
Mount reward for completing the âfull affixâ challenge.
Smaller rewards for partial completions (e.g. clear with 1 hard affix, then 2, etc).
Alternative Pacing Systems (No Timers Needed)
Timers make many players avoid Mythic+, but pacing still matters. Instead of punishing players with failure, the dungeon itself provides pressure and excitement:
Random Event Bosses (Delves-style):
Bonus bosses may spawn during the dungeon.
Ignoring the events makes the dungeon harder (e.g. buffs enemies or the final boss).
Keeps players moving without enforcing a strict clock.
Scaling Dungeon Pressure:
The longer you take, the stronger the dungeon becomes.
Examples: mobs gain stacking buffs, extra elites appear, or environmental hazards intensify.
Slow clears are possible, but they grow more dangerous, creating natural pacing.
Rotating Dungeon Afflictions:
Every X minutes, one affix escalates or a seasonal event triggers.
Examples: invasion waves, curses, or dungeon-wide effects.
Groups are encouraged to progress steadily while still keeping it fun and dynamic.
Momentum Rewards (Positive Reinforcement):
Instead of punishing slow play, reward faster clears with bonus loot or currency.
Slower groups still complete and progress, but speed feels like an optional perk, not a requirement.
Why This Works
Accessible: Removes punishing mechanics (timers, keys) that cause players to quit.
Encourages Social Play: Groups can run the same level weekly or push higher together.
Engaging Pacing:Random bosses, scaling difficulty, and momentum rewards keep runs lively without excluding slower players.
Room for Fun Mechanics: Opens the door for unique dungeon events like random bosses (Zekvir-style), seasonal modifiers, and other creative surprises.
With this system, Mythic+ stays challenging, rewarding, and socially engaging but without the stress that keeps many players (especially disabled ones) from participating.
In random LFG there will always join one overgeared player who will trivialize the Mythic run and you will learn absolutely nothing, as the boss abilities wonât even have enough time to happen
Some nice ideas but others I donât like.
M0 as LFG tutorial with guides: Good though unsure how they would implement it and perhaps it would be better as a follower dungeon.
No timers I am all for and I think you should be able to queue for whichever difficulty you want without a key.
Whilst delve-like progression is a good idea it does hamper the ability for you helping friends quickly gear up and in some cases, you simply donât need to do every difficulty.
I do not like the random event bosses as that can be an affix in itself. I really do not like the scaling dungeon pressure idea. You are punishing people who are taking it slow to learn, they will not learn by making it even harder if they go slowly. It is also, effectively, another timer.
Sounds good, Iâd like that.
Brann is alright but I only have a single, me excepted, target to heal. Thatâs not good enough.
Iâd very much prefer follower M0 to M0 lfg.
And thatâs because Iâd like a good practice mode, preferably without distractions.
This suggestion sucks. You literally want to make Delves+. If that is what you want, dont change M+. Change Delves.
Leave M+ and itâs timer alone. If you cant live with the timer then dont play M+. Play Delves or Raid. Its OK. Not everyone needs to like M+âŚ
But if people insist on playing M+ and still get stressed by the timer⌠well there is a solution: Dont do such high keys. Do lower keys. EZ. Once you get used to that level, you slowly increase key level. Thatâs the whole point of the timer⌠You donât have to shoot from +2 to +15 in a day if you are not comfortable doing so⌠Go at your own paceâŚ
Also⌠stop using the disabled community as an excuse to ask for changes. Its lame and I am tired of it. Also, changing a whole system for the 99% of people that are not disabled is also a dumb reason.
Yep, thats the whole point of m+ right now to be speedrun. If there is no timer then wheres the challenge or based on what metrics do we increase the level of challenge. People could wipe 400x and spend 4 hours failing every mechanic in key and then what
Isnât like progress through normal, then heroic, then mythic the path you should take to learn - either your class and dungeon mechanics? I might agree with queued mythic version of dungeon, but here I would suggest to be grouped only with players in your ilvl bracket - not like joining as 650 and being carried by 710 player.
How would you then make it challenging? Itâs the highest dungeon difficulty (scaling by level of key). By removing timers many people would complain that they have to spend to much time in dungeon, just to complete it.
Well it kinda works like that - you canât jump to 11s right after you dinged 80 and wanna gear up.
I think we had some kind of âmixâ of affixes in the past and people were complaining.
The things you described, sound more like a personal wish, how you personally would enjoy the m+ scene. But as mentioned by others, I donât think this would solve any ongoing issues.
The point of end game content is, that it doesnât necessarily need to fit to EVERYONE.
Some people like gearing through pvp, some people like pushing solo delves. Some people avoid m+ but like to press hard within raid content.
The timer in a key has the same purpose as the enrage timer of a raid boss, or a timer in BGs. The only difference is that the timer in a key is placed on your screen instead of hidden behind a DBM addon.
And you are 100% correct. The reason all those timers exists is because if people spend too long in a dungeon (or killing a boss, or in a BG) itâs not fun anymore.
The true difficulty of M+ is the infinite scaling. That is what people donât get.
I also dont get all this timer whining. We all have a watch. We all have appointments at X hour⌠I mean⌠our whole life is a timer⌠Why is a number that has no bearing in a game such an issue?
To do any M+ dungeon, you need the appropriate gear and have done (completed) the previous iteration of that dungeon, so to do a +5, you need to have completed a +4 of that dungeon.
Queue times, 5-minute window, hourly, so +2 can be queued for the first 5 minutes of every hour, +3 the second 5 minutes of every hour, and so on
If youâve done a +3, you can queue for a +2, regardless of the time window.
Honestly, itâs mostly fine. I just want them to remove the weekly âxalatathâ affixes.
Itâs way more enjoyable to do 12 and above keys cause we donât have to deal with that nonsense anymore.
The affixes just add chaos and often come at very bad times and overlap with the dungeon mechanics.
Also, no point to them if they get removed at 12. Best go back to having one affix running for the whole season for everyone, if we must absolutely have them.
Path of least resistance, the point of the queue time windows is mainly for higher âkeysâ.
The pool of players for letâs say a +15 will be smaller than that of a +5, thus making the queue time for a +15 much longer, unless you have the players that are qualified for a +15 all queuing up at basically the same time.
This system is superior to pugs so tanks/healers will take part in it just like everyone else, the path of least resistance.
Say there are 10 tanks, 10 healers, and 100 DDs in the game right now. And ALL of those tanks/healers participate in your system.
So at most you can make 10 groups. With 10 tanks, 10 healers, and 30 DDs. The other 70 DDs⌠what will they do? How will you find them a group?
You say you can reduce the wait time for the 70 DDs. Where do the tanks/healers for their groups come from? Where are they hiding?
In what way is it superior? A tank and a healer right now are in such a high demand that we can cherry pick any group we want. With the most gigachad DDs we want. And have to wait, at most, 30s to find a group.
You propose a machine to choose less qualified DDs for me, and you call that âsuperiorâ? It dosent seem superior to me⌠No thanksâŚ
