Fix M+ in 500 words

Maybe. But unlike in the past, it’s not instant wipe if they do. I remember the old affixes that also showed up in the worst possible moment… and when they did, Deplete.

Also. The affixes are OP. They give you like 20% haste (a BL for 30s every 60s). Or 20% crit or some crazy buff like that.

That is why, I agree with this statement:

Doing a 12 with out a BL for 50% of the time is a big difficulty spike. In S1 we saw what happens when you stack difficulty spikes on a +12.

The affix I 100% want deleted RIGHT NOW is the -15s per death. That one is absolutely brutal. I hate it. I prefer any of the old nonesense to that one.

yeah i dont get this, delvers that cant complete m+ on certain difficulty now wants to drastically change the whole m+ system so that they can do this, might aswell make it so that brann npc comes in and resurrects the whole group when group wipes and kill the pack/boss that group wiped on while your at it.

remove timer hah.

3 Likes

The path of the least resistance, and a more successfull one, is just going in normal LFG right now and cherrypick your group. As a tank or healer you are in a group in 20 seconds.

Why there aren’t as many players playing as tanks/healers is a separate issue.

Exactly, it’s not merit-based, I can stop you from joining my group because I don’t like your transmog, someone else can do it because your rating is too low even though you have the appropriate gear for that +10.

You’re now having a difficult time getting into groups for all kinds of arbitrary reasons.

Except you are 1 person. The other 99 groups are accepting me instantly, as a tank or healer. The path of the least resitance is just normal LFG over soloQ. With even more chance of succeeding because of a group with a reasonable amount of interupts, bloodlust, battleres and probably the right dispell.

And its the main cause for queues, declines and what not.
You can create the “fairest system in the realms” for m+ but there will be STILL dps left out in the cold. There are NOT enough tanks and healers to entertain all the DPSers.
So whatever system is pointless without addressing the true cause. You are not reducing queues for the DPS. You are simply “changing the criteria” which 30 of the 100 DPS will be chosen and thats it.

But its THE issue dont you think?

With out them you cant make more groups. And DDs that wait in line is literally because there are no groups available.

If its a separate discussion might as well talk about that instead of a SoloQ don’t you think?

Yeah… because you CAN. If you have 100 DDs in the quew and only need 3… you can pick and choose whoever you want for any reason you want.

Healers and Tanks are treated like royalty. You could be named “keyholdersucks” and be moged like a clown and still be accepted.

2 Likes

Yes, it is THE issue. The suggested change of Canabal would actually just make everything worse because now the DPS getting invited by the random system are just that, random. So instead of the BEST DPS of those 100 being picked, the picking is just randomized.

This benefits worse players because they’ll get into more groups but ultimately makes every run just harder.

What you need to do is to fix the root of the issue which is a heavy imbalanced ratio between tanks/heals and DPS.

2 Likes

I agree with 1, 2 and 4 but I don’t get 3rd one.

How about absolutely not. If it’s too stressful go do m0? No timer there.

1 Like

I think the biggest Issue, with M+ and its bad Air (toxicity) and the general “dislike” for m+ from the more casual or mid core playerbase comes from its absolute awful introduction.

What i mean with this, is that in m+ you actually need to know what this trash mob does, when he starts casting. This knowledge is not delivered in any shape or form in easier iterations like normal/Heroic heck even m0. People dont care to learn, because they can just burst down the pack, and there is zero consequence even if the cast goes through, due to the absolute minimal damage.

To make m+ more attractive or less disliked, m0 should be made a bit harder and queueable. The minimum Item Level requirment should be around 675 (orientating myself on current season 3)

The Queue system should pay a bit attention to the dps put together (which are usually responsible for the majority of kicks and cc)

And to unlock the queue there should be required to do a questchain, that actively points out these “dangers” of the spellcasts or abilities trash mobs (i feel bosses are the smallest issue) have. The Quest should also actively lead the player to the dungeon journal, that in return should list the most dangerous trash mobs + their casts and what they do.

Maybe coupled with a special trial dungeon where there are hardchecks on interrupts or cc. the reward can be a chest reward with a random m0 item.

If players still arent “prepared” afterwards to start doing m+ then they never will be. Its a them problem not a game design problem.

In M+ itself i would lock out players on doing high tier keys from the start. need to do majority of them at +4 and then +7 before they can go higher.

each of those makes sure they see the majority of the seasonal dungeons when the first and second modification come into play (in season 3 xals bargain at 4 and tyrannical/fortified at 7) and how this influences how the dungeon is done.

The rest should be on the player actively informing themself (routes etc.) because this is already a lot of hand holding.

1 Like

People keep on saying m+ is toxic and since legion and when it came out i have met only like nasty players and that is playing at all levels.

Whether or not the vetting process is nonexistent for tanks and healers has never been in question so it’s irrelevant and I’ll prove it.

Trick question:

You’re the tank and I’m the DPS, we both list our names in LFG at the same time, and you got accepted instantly for the +10, it took me 45 minutes to get in the group.

If we’re both in the same group and the process began when we listed our names for the +10 and ended when it was completed.

Who had the path of least resistance, you or me?

And that’s why tanks and healers will join solo queue.

You just explained why tanks and healers have a better experience in LFG than in SoloQ. And that is why tanks and healers wouldn’t use SoloQ. There are too many pro’s for normal grouping for tanks and healers.

What kind of weird mental gymnastics are you trying to pull off?
Your own example only shows that the DPS got in the key because they piggy-backed on the tank.
So under your… “logic” tanks and healers will give up their privilege to cherry pick their own groups, join instantly whatever group they please and join soloq… because “they want to piggy-back” some DPSers for insta queues?
Is that your main argument? Really? c’moon…even your average zug zug forum troll can make up something better than that.

2 Likes

Sure… if every single DD had a “tank friend” he could join to get instant quews… we would have ZERO problem right now with the LFG. EVERYONE would have 5 min quews right now…

I thought it was obvious but I guess not.

In the scenario I just laid out, the tank had to wait just as long as the DPS.

Even though the tank got accepted instantly into the group.

The +10 won’t start until all 5 spots in the group are filled.

In SoloQ, the vetting process for DPS is the same as it is for tanks in LFG, nonexistent, and therefore instantly accepted into the group.

And this is why tanks/healers will use SoloQ.

They won’t have to wait 45 minutes to get the group situated before they can start.

OK. Lets say you find 5 people and fill that group instantly.

WHO is left in the quew still waiting? If there are 100 DDs. 0 tanks. 0 healers…

Those 100 DDs CANNOT JOIN MORE GROUPS. Therefore they will wait.

The instant 1 tank and 1 healer join the quew… a new group is formed in 5 minutes.

You went from 100 DDs, to 1 tank 1 healer to 97 DDs, 0 tanks 0 healers.

Now you got 97 DDs in the quew that have to wait.

EXCEPT…

That today, healers and tanks can STILL form a group in 5 min. BUT with the extra “luxury” of choosing out of the 100 DDs in the quew the ones WE want. Not the ones blizzard wants.

SoloQ is a bad deal for Healers and Tanks…

Yeah… I guess not… use your brain please !

Look. Unless blizzard does something to re-design healing and tanking… your best option is to either find friends to do LFG. Or to reroll healer/tank. DONE.

SoloQ wont solve that.

I think I did a poor job explaining, the tank and the DPS don’t know each other.

The tank got accepted instantly but it took the DPS 45 minutes to get accepted to the same group.

They both queued up in LFG at the same time.

The +10 won’t start until all 5 spots are filled.

By this logic, it took the tank 45 minutes to join the group too, if that makes sense.

OK…

But you also said this…

I am a healer. I am trading: Instant quews. Free choice of any DDs I want… for… 45 minute quews… and I dont even get to choose the DDs I want.

Why should I join that horrible system? What happens if you make a SoloQ and no tank/healer joins?

I tell you what will happen. They all stay in LFG with their instant quews… Or stop playing… and quews go from 45 min to 2h. That’s what will happen.

Is THAT what you are suggesting?