Axiom 1: Removing tanks/healers would reduce wait times to ZERO.
Therefore: The source of DD wait times is not the lack of tanks/healers?
What kind of stupid logic did you just present above?
How about stop talking philosophy and take some physics and math instead. Mathematics is not a debatable field…
Conservation of mass. Its that simple.
If you have 10 units IN, you cant have more than 10 units OUT. Its that simple.
If you got X tanks IN. You cant have more than X keys OUT. So. At any given time, there can only be a maximum of 3X DPS playing keys. If the total amount of DPS is > than 3X, there are wait times.
But everyone is asking the same question to you again and again. WHO will tank for those qualified DPS players? And WHY should I?
What are the reasons to tank/heal with qualified people instead of overqualified people.
Because there is a difference between qualified and overqualified people. It’s not just RIO. Its skill.
What is there to gain from having a miserable time tanking/healing for lower quality DDs. Because dont forget, I can always stop healing keys if I am not having fun anymore. Like I did in SS.
That is not the conclusion. Please activate your neurons here and read what was said again. THINK for a minute here.
If tanks/healers are deleted. We are ALL become DPS.
If all you need to form a group is ANY 5 players, then the # of keys played is the same as the number of players / 5. Nobody waits.
Therefore there are no wait times. THAT is the conclusion.
PLUS: Tanks/Healers are NOT removed. They exist. Like it or not. THEREFORE… why are you basing your conclusions over a hypothetical that will not, and cannot exist? So its VERY, VERY much relevant for your discourse.
What kind of word salad, mental gymnastics and illogical conclusions are you trying to pull off now?
You compare two different things, heck pull 2 words out of the entire context to argument your soloQ?
Whats next? SoloQ will be a success because I left cheese out in the sun yday and it got moldy? 100% proof!
For petty sake. I know its the weekend but right now, even flat-earthers make “more sense” than you.
Removing tanks/healers would solve wait times. They would go down to 0. Regardless of the system you use. SoloQ or LFG.
But the fact is that Tanks/Healers exist. And WILL exist. All this statement does is CEMENT the idea that more tanks/healers reduces wait times. Regardless of the system you use. SoloQ or LFG.
WITH THAT SAID:
SoloQ would STILL not address completion rates. They would go down. Even in the impossible scenario of deleting tanks/healers. THAT is what Lynlia said in his comment.
The CONCLUSION is the following:
SoloQ is worse than LFG. In ANY scenario. Even in the impossible scenario where tanks/healers dont exist and wait times are reduced to 0.
I wish it wouldn’t but it does. You’ve literally seen tanks quit tanking due to the tank revamp in TWW and healers quit due to healing getting harder and harder.
The issue has been seen on multiple occasions.
From a tank perspective:
It would need to have MDT built in/require less thoughts about routing for new tanks. Actual routing should probably just become relevant in high keys.
(It actually already is like that but the community just is… well… the community)
Reverse the revamp of TWW and make tanks tankier again so they don’t feel like getting 1 shot at every corner without CDs up.
Require more tanks in raids or require more DPS in dungeons to even it out.
For Healers:
Make healing less stressful. Sometimes you feel like losing 3 weeks of your lifespan after playing a single dungeon.
For both (and this might be a controversial take):
Give more agency/urgency to DPS players.
Tank and Healer fails/shortcomings are noticed immediatly while that’s not the case for most DPS. In high keys yes, absolutely, but not in low to mid range keys.
Everything, absolutely everything in low to mid range keys is played as a healer mechanic and after that as a tank mechanic.
DPS just tracks along, blasting happy little offensive CDs without ever looking at their def CDs, their kicks or boss mechanics.
I’ve seen too many DPS players getting hard carried through keys while doing NOTHING except for blasting damage, even in +15/16s.
Design more dungeon mechanics that DPS players are not allowed to mess up - if they do, immediate 1 shot. Why? Because if it’s not a 1 shot, it’s treated as a healer mechanic in low to mid keys.
Another issue is that tanks and healer get blamed too much by DPS players. Just yesterday in a streets 16 I was flamed by a Frost DK for pulling 4 easy mobs (chargers, no casters), that do random damage, into the boss (time efficiency and funnel dmg).
He flamed me for that pull because he died, while he actually (confirmed by healer, Details and my recording) stood in a void zone.
He even told the healer to actively stop his worldly existence because the healer dared to tell him that he died to a voidzone, not the charges, which would 1 shot him anyways, no matter if he’s at 100% or 10% HP.
He also flamed me for the second and third pull of the dungeon which arguably were bad but unplanned and necessary because our mage completely messed up our BL (used a the wrong time) and someone ninja pulled an extra pack, so I had do adjust the route on the fly due to the missplay of 2 other DPS players, yet I got blamed for it.
So in essence, DPS players messed up my route TWICE and I (tank) get blamed for it AND DPS get 1 shot by void zone and I (tank) get blamed for it.
TLDR of this: Responsibility for tanks and healers is incredibly high while DPS can, for the most part, just smooth brain along. If a single DPS player is smooth braining, it often doesn’t get noticed/is not that impactful as it should be unless you’re running high keys.
You also have not convinced us why we, as tanks and healers, should even consider using SoloQ.
You want faster queue times, right? There’s your argument to tank/heal instead of DPS.
Not enough incentive? Well, too bad, wait in queue then because SoloQ won’t change the fundamental issue that most WoW players also don’t want to tank/heal.
Make tanks tankier, make healing less stressful, give DPS more responsibility so not every mechanic gets treated as a healer mechanic.
Compared to tanking and healing DPSing is too smooth brainy in low to mid level content. So obviously, apart from the big pew pew numberz, it’s more appealing to play a role with far less responsibility and thus get less flame/toxicity direct torwards you.
Look through the forums and reddit and count how many tanks/healers have stopped playing altogether or in LFG (only play premade) because of toxicity.
It evens out the numbers. You currently have too many DPS players in relation to tanks and healers. Making a dungeon require more DPS players evens this out and more DPS can participate at the same time.
I join a 5 streets as the tank, there’s a healer and 2 dps, and we wait for the final 2 dps
They join and one of them announces “I’m helping X with doing keys” - and maybe I should have bailed at this point, but I think what the heck, just try it.
First pull to boss seems normal enough. Start boss and the first mini boss seems normal too. Then sword boss comes out, and the DPS drops massively from the the last 2 DPS who joined (500-700k). One of them puts the cage right in front of boss and dies. The next time the cage comes out, no one DPS’s it and the other one dies. The boss also literally takes forever to die.
The trash up until the second boss seems fairly normal (ok aoe damage)
We wipe to the second multi boss, because apparently people just watch the chains thing cast on someone and don’t DPS it - I try after seeing no one doing anything, but its too late and we wipe. So I try a FF, and it doesn’t pass.
We do the boss again and it takes forever, so it’s pretty obvious it isn’t getting timed.
The trash again up to the POST boss is ok, but on the POST boss we wipe because one of the two last joiner DPS runs away with the stack marker and it also takes forever because of awful DPS from the last two DPS invited, plus one of them dies at least once.
Cast a vote, denied again.
They don’t know the RP before music boss, and by this point the DPS is getting worse.
We almost wipe on music boss because one of the last two DPS dies.
We get to final boss, and by now its like 5 mins over time and the fight is a mess and we wipe, because guess who is dead again.
And sadly at this point I left - I felt bad, but come on, if you don’t know mechs, don’t do a 5 lol.
The only thing I could see SOLO Queue solving, is not allowing people to queue for keys they haven’t qualified for, so if you haven’t upgraded a 2,3,4, you’re not getting into a 5.
P.S at many points the healer was doing more DPS than the DPS who joined last
