Tank, why are you not pulling around my cooldowns?? Cause it is a timed dungeon?!
Wrong, shuffle is popular cause its the most inflated mode. If arena had same inflation many people would play it over shuffle. Do I really need to explain again how rated system is participation based and how inflation and deflation in each of the modes separately majorly affects which mode people play. Blizz biggest mistake were add more separate modes to split playerbase without rework or compensate it on their outdated rated system.
The gist of this personâs argument to fix M+ is for there to be more tanks and healers.
So to prove a point (peopleâs preferences are what they are), I told this person to convince me to Tank.
Fast queue time was the âconvincingâ argument made, as if that wasnât the case right now for tanks.
Everyone on the plane going to Jamaica will arrive at their destination, all at the same time. Why is it relevant who got on the plane first (tank/healers)?
They (tanks/healers) queue faster, yes, but they donât start the dungeon faster.
In SoloQ, they start the dungeon faster.
Thats the main source of the problem yes.
1 group consists of a 1 tank 1 healer 3 dps. Ok, so we got 10 tanks, 10 healers and 100 dps. You can dance around your soloQ system all you want but fundamentally the only difference it makes it âwhich lucky 30 dpsâ will get chosen. The remaining 70 DPS will still have to WAIT. Either your soloQ system puts them in queue to wait for next tank/healer to appear or play the signup simulator via manual LFG.
Again. You got 50 airplanes and they can ONLY leave with a tank and healer aboard. So the 10/10 healers appear on the airplane they can CHOOSE which 10 airplanes will take off first. The remaining 40 will continue to wait until more tanks and healers arrive. So the DPS in AVERAGE(you wont always be the lucky dps to be on the airplane which takes off immediately) will WAIT FOR A LONGER TIME.
As a tank. I can join any group which has a healer+3 dps already in it, port to the key via portal(or get summoned) and key is started in less than 5 mins.
As a sole DPS, I can wait for average to 15-30 mins for a tank and healer to appear on my signup window and thats IF they appear before I can even bother to move to the instance.
I can also join some other DPS key and wait those 15-30 mins together.
Sure as a DPS I can also look for the few groups which already has a tank+healer in them but those groups are extremely sought after and the competion for them is even bigger. Unless you are rio 3.2k and a meta specâŚdont bother to even try to get into a +12 So your average 2.9k rio guy which actually would need said dungeon for score, can forget about it.
Okay, not Uda, but you⌠You convince me to play as a Tank.
Itâs a problem that can be fixed, right? So surely you have some ideas on how to fix it.
So, go on, convince me to play Tank.
Its a problem which cannot be fixed with some âmagical wandâ.
its a consequence of having multiple roles. Check any other game which has âDPSâ and âsupportâ roles, like OW, other MMORPGs and etc. They also have the same issue where DPS outnumber healers/supports and tanks.
Your soloQ idea gets criticised because it wont deliver upon your âpromiseâ for shorter queues on DPS.
There are 2 solutions(possibly 3) for this:
1 - Get more people to play tanks and healers which is an entire separate discussion regarding tank and healer design.
2 - Change the party comp to 1-1-4 or 1-1-5 for example so 1 tank/healer can take more DPSers with them. But that would require Blizz to do a large overhaul to accommodate this new setting.
3 - Eliminate tank/healer roles altogether and everyone is a âDPSââŚbut then Blizz have to pretty-much redesign whole WoW down to its foundations.
Neither of these 3 points your soloQ has any affect on. All it does its just âre-shufflesâ the long DPS queue but does not make it shorter.
Dude. I asked YOU why dont you play tank. And did not give any answer.
Therefore I will wait. I will not entertain this stupid back and fourth, where you expect me to read your mind and know why you dont want to tank.
I can give you reasons to why I heal: Because I am the super-star of the group. Thatâs why. People make mistakes? No problem. Uda is here to power-heal through all that and save a run. I turn a guaranteed deplete to a guaranteed time. And that feels good. I feel rewarded for my efforts, and my team makes sure to let me know their appreciation.
And as a result, I log in and have 20 people whisper me instantly asking to play with me. Not just any healer. ME. Specifically. And when I feel like pugging⌠I take literally seconds to find a group.
And that way, I managed to practically time every key I join. And managed to almost get 16+ resi with just 4h of gameplay a week. I want to underline that. FOUR hours a week. And feeling really satisfied of being the a gigachad on my way there.
Those are MY reasons to play healer. What are your reasons to play DD?
Just think that your main point of implementing an M+ SS is so you dont have to wait as long in LFG.
But you know what? I am bored of talking to you about this. Here is an interview with Ion, lead developer.
Dont beleive me, and so many others here in the forum? Well⌠belevie Blizzard instead:
https://www.wowhead.com/news/tanks-healers-and-the-abandon-system-in-lfg-midnight-group-interviews-378819
Ion Hazzikostas said:
Are there any planned class or reward designed goals to try to get more players playing non-DPS roles in order to facilitate pickup group queues?
Thatâs a great question. Itâs something we spend a lot of time thinking about.
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Bit off-topic but its also one of the perks for me tanking.
When the route comes along nicely and the 3 DPS are dancing around hapilly with their ânice tanking bro! Best route!â compliments.
As a dpsâŚyou areâŚjust a dps? One of many. You were just there to tag a long andâŚas long as you are not literarily doing sub-tank DPS, then nobody even cares if you are there.
True. I also get whispers of appreciation.
But I personally really appreciate Gigachad DDs. I can feel the significant difference. Priory for example cant be done with out Gigachad DDs.
And I also let them know my appreciation. Because sometimes they also deserve it.
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How would you get more people to play tanks and healers?
How does this fix M+?
How does this eliminate barriers to entry?
Convince DPS to re-roll as tanks.
Letâs see your best argument.
Do you have an actual point to make with this back and forth forum clowning 
or you are just trolling at this point?
Iâm actually interested in your answers.
I already answered you.
The tank/healer deficit is a natural consequence of having a trinity existing(tank+healer+DPS) which cannot be solved with a single method or single system or whateverâŚheck it cant even be resolved. Unless you want to send hitmen to every wow players house and force them to play âless funâ roles.
But what ifâŚ
⌠we tried these?
How would they impact barriers to entry in M+?
Would it still feel like World of Warcraft if the tank/healer roles were removed?
If no, why did you suggest it?
Because those even hyptothetical approaches can at least try reducing DPS queues cause it either increases more tanks/healers for DPS to group up with with OR allows tanks/healers to take more DPS to queue up with. THUS reducing the queue.
SoloQ cannot deliver anything cause it doesnât bring more tanks/healer into equation or increases tank/haler âDPS capacityâ. So we get the same 10 tanks, 10 healers, 100 DPS.
Whenever a soloQ âdecides the lucky 30 DPS to go into a keyâ OR manual groups decides the âlucky 30â.
The result is the same:
THERE
WILL
BE
DPS
LEFT
OUT
WAITING.
How does removing the tank/healer roles reduce the queue time for DPS?
Wouldnât barriers to entry still exist for DPS?
They exist sure. If you want to actually have a successful run.
But why do you care? If you advocate for soloQ then why do you care about the quality of the runs? Its evident that soloQ will create disaster groups with a success chance less of 1% but since when do you care about having a âsuccesfullâ run?
You got 5 bad randos in a key which failed on 1st pull and depleted/disbanded. People got âinto M+ runâŚfor 10 sec anywayâ so⌠âsuccessâ?
This is your job to answer because many question the SoloQ system that you present. Answer the questions yourself.
If you remove healer/tank rolls it means everyone is a DPS. Therefore, there the moment there are 5 people (any people) you can make a group.
Then the wait times in LFG would be ZERO. For everyone.
That was the point Lynlia said. Itâs an extreme example to showcase WHY healer/tank shortage is the bottleneck to wait times.
terrible modes
I asked warrior in shuffle to âgo shadowâ and he went healer. I ask ww âgo shadowâ and he went warrior and healer. Dont know why anyone would want this.
I dont even want to talk to them as you can see how much good that is for. Itâs 3v3 mode with the idea of 3 people playing as team, what when you get the ppl that dont even want to play as a team and just want to do whatever they self want cause they qued âsoloâ so they think they also playing solo, âI play solo, you play soloâ.
If they would force something fimilar for pve the only thing it would do is pvp not being the only content that got ruined. I can see how that will go, it would be the next most horrible decision they could do since shuffles 
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