Fixing M+ loot

Community General Discussion
1

M+ loot has to be limited because the dungeons are infinitely spammable and if they are rewarding, people will spam them like crazy, get geared, burn themselves out and cancel sub. So this is not an option.

Here is an option:
Remove the weekly vault.

The first 8 M+ dungeons you do in a week are guaranteed to drop 2-3 items for you. All keys you do after that don’t drop anything, except maybe valor points.

You do 8 dungeons and you’re done with loot for the week. Enjoy the ~20 pieces. After that, you can push your key, get it ready for much higher loot next week, practice more runs, chase rio… or hop on an alt.

Players will know after 8 dungeons, they are DONE with the loot. They won’t have loot expectations, so running dungeons won’t result in disappointment.

Players will be free to help weaker players, because doing lower keys won’t degrade their chests and they won’t feel like they’re missing out on a chance to get better loot by not running an M+15 key.

Of course, players who don’t want to play won’t feel pressured to spend hours farming and getting disappointed and they’ll be free to play other games and come back to WoW next week. They won’t burn out, they will stay subbed for longer.

With valor points coming back, we can have dungeons drop infinite valor points, to speed up gearing and give players who want to continue pursuing progression a non-rng based path towards it.

If players are pursuing a very specific bis from a very specific dungeon, they can try to have their first 8 runs be just that dungeon and greatly boost their chance of getting the item they want.

2

Imagine the booster tears!

1 Like
3

So if I’m running with my team, we’d need to be very careful with what keys we run, so that everyone has a chance of getting an upgrade. And if we don’t have good keys, we’re pretty much screwed.

How about no, thanks.

3 Likes
4

Yes

also yes

No!

See, with M+ currently being so VASTLY unrewarding compared to the other two end-game avenues (Raid’n’PvP) people hardly even bother logging in to do the weekly for the casino… If anything the current system is leaking people like crazy… Now granted Valor will most definately help in that regard, but putting the cap at 220 is like peeing in the wind, it will not end up good for Blizz… Thankfully the expac is still young, so changes are bound to happen :slight_smile:

5

This will never happen.

This is one of the psychological mechanisms WoW has to keep players subscribe.

Not true, it will be capped like Conquest points.

  • The Boosting industry are shedding tears of joy. More customers!
6

Finding the middle ground is not so easy. I can agree that with the loot drought it may have been an overkill, but I dont want the BFA loot pinnata where you outgear and make HC raid obsolete within a week either…

7

tears of joy I guess? This would guarantee that boosters can effectively “sell” loot

1 Like
8

Yes but not for long per character, as it would be capped.

9

So? There’s a gazillion of boosters, many with alts. With guaranteed loot, prices would go up, too. Would be a lovely thing for boosters.

I mean, consider someone with two characters boost ready: that’s 16 runs a week, for, say ~60k / run, almost a million. And we haven’t factored in runs that aren’t armor stacked, or where loot is just a bonus, not the goal. That’d remain uncapped.

10

It would reward boosters more than today, because now people just want 1 dungeon for weekly vault or maybe 10 times for the entire tier in order to get KSM. This suggested system would incentivize people to get boosted 8 times per week xD

11

In my ideal world, rewards would be structured like this
Normal dungeon
Normal raid
Heroic dungeon
Heroic raid
Mythic dungeon
Mythic raid

Mythic+ won’t even exist, but mythic dungeons will reward more powerful loot than heroic raids. They will also be appropriately challenging.

As your post indicates, the RNG access to dungeons is a huge problem, where players like you (and me) have to farm keys just to have a chance to get the dungeon they want loot from.

This creates a system where more often than not, players run dungeons just to fill their delayed reward chest, rather than for the reward of the dungeon itself.

12

i agree with this, but currently capping it to 207-210 beeing the highest farmable (Which is fine, as long as it’s upgradable with a weekly capped currency "valor) will help to make that never happen again, mostly i’m peeved about the notion that Blizzard has stated M+ as part of their “end game trio” and yet make it far less rewarding than Raiding and PvP… No matter how good you get at M+ you still rely on either PvP,raiding or the weekly casino… Which is a massive spit in the face to those of us who don’t partake in PvP… All that’s happened thus far is that instead of M+'ing like last expac, those “go-hard” raiders got forced into PvP to gear… And due to that, loads of PvE players are already burned out of the game, feeling forced into content they don’t enjoy…

All i hope is that they find a way to please all 3 spheres of players, and fast <3

2 Likes
13

I’m on the fence if the loot should be tradeable at all. I think there’s a core problem with loot distribution currently.

Right now I’m of the opinion that loot should not be tradeable and pugs should have personal loot, while full guild groups can distribute loot as they please.

14

No, thanks. I don’t raid, and I don’t want to raid. M+ is my endgame. I like that I can run it as many times as I wish, and have a chance on loot (which is currently kinda useless, but much less so come valor points). Being loot capped would be a terrible feeling.

It would also prevent me from helping friends or alts with trading them loot. Again, no thanks.

I run keys with my team because a) it’s fun; b) it fills my vault. With Valor points coming up, that’ll help me upgrade gear I get from them. I still won’t target dungeons, because that is simply not worth my time.

Random keys ain’t a problem, unless you want to min-max the living hell out of it, which is not something that should be incentivized, in my opinion.

15

That’s why it’s not gonna get removed, despite my wants. So instead, it’ll frontload the loot. 2-3 items per dungeon is insane reward :open_mouth:

Then Blizz can figure something out about the RNG access to dungeons, to make sure you and your mates can in fact get the dungeons and loot that you want.

Also, as a last resort, it can be the first 8 dungeons you choose to pick up loot from, and not the first 8 you do. With the game giving you proper information about your actions. Although I am much more in favor of it being the first 8 you do.

16

With your suggested M+ rework loot trade wouldn’t even be necessary for boosters.

17

People getting geared quick > less people who need boosting > more people capable of offering boosts > shift in supply and demand > boosting ded cuz it’s too cheap, might as well do it for free :^)

18

People can’t play well enough to do higher keys > People ask for boost > People who can’t play get 20 pieces of top tier gear > boosters can offer even more loot players > boosters very happy

This doesn’t even make sense, because it assumes:
A) Regular players enjoy boosting and will start becoming boosters. This is just not the case. Boosters boost because it is an industry, like a part time job. Most players don’t want a part time job in their video game.
→ the rest of your argument falls short, because the supply and demand won’t shift and because boosting will never be for free.

19

See above. That’d be a huge disadvantage for most teams, and for people who help out friends & alts.

No, the best solution would be to let us upgrade gear with Valor to max ilevel. Then we’re not tied to the weekly vault, and dungeon loot becomes useful again, it doesn’t prevent trading, and doesn’t require teams to go out of their ways to optimize which keys to run.

20

Supply and demand will shift, though. Because your demand is capped at 8 runs a week per character, where currently it is infinite, especially if you’re pursuing your bis trinket. The current system rewards running infinite keys in minimal time, and that’s exactly what boosting offers. If you could only get loot from 8 dungeons (and this is why I think ti should be the first 8 you do a week), you’ll need much less boosting in the first place.

I’ve discovered the people who spend money on microtransactions are en masse people who understand the value of what that money buys. It’s not casual players who have the gold and money for boosts. It is people who need gear right now and know why they need it.