Agreed, nobody should be cowed for sporting something unpopular, or even if not unpopular, disliked by a few. The purpose of forums is to discuss and argue the points out, not to sling mud at people that occupy a different position to yourself.
One problem I see repeating a lot (although I donât see a solution) is during the topics around stuff such as covenants, where people will phrase their arguments in the language of hypotheticals and generic terms (using phrases such as âmin-maxersâ or âcasualsâ or âroleplayersâ) and then others respond to that as if itâs a personal attack on them, and thus respond to the player personally and do attack them personally.
As said thereâs no solution to this because you canât really enforce policies on language used in discussion that doesnât violate CoC, but I do think itâs worth bearing in mind that hypotheticals are often a tool of discussion, as are references to generics, and as such they do not represent personal attacks against specific individuals unless the language explicitly implies such:
âMin-maxers are all a bunch of crybabiesâ - not a personal attack, but itâs not a constructive statement. It doesnât really present the opportunity for constructive replies.
âI donât get why the min-maxers are moaning.â not a personal attack, itâs a generalisation, it presents an opportunity for a constructive reply however by illustrating some of the things the person is generalising about.
âI donât get why X is crying, look at their achiâ this is a personal attack and has no real place in the realm of discussion. It is entirely possible to respond to their post (presumbely) without need to do this.
i think all of us are guilty at certain points of maybe generalising a bit or making a statement that was a bit lazy, and sometimes I think weâd benefit from pausing a bit before we reply and asking âis it just lazy or is worse?â. I know sometimes iâve responded to stuff in haste and later recanted upon realising I was barking up the wrong tree and iâd jumped into the post. This mindset would be useful.
The issue is a lot of people both IRL and OL see discussions as âwinning and losingâ and arenât willing to make concessions or appear to back down on any front (be it their argument or their tone) which leads to a lot of spatting where in truth it probably arises from a communication being made in a less than optimal way and it being interpreted as meaning more than that.
Itâs the domino effect. The more heated up a discussion gets the more people get involved, the more people, the more opinions, more heat. And so on. It only takes one person to say something some other person does not agree with.
This is why Blizzard should keep politics or statements not related to wow out of their announcements etc. It makes people go to the forums to discuss said things when itâs about a game. Iâm not talking about characters being added in game. There should be a blatant âno poltical discussionsâ on the forums and itâs a rule that should apply to Blizzard themselves.
It shouldnât be one politcal view is allowed but another isnât and it getâs buried even when itâs not hate. Thatâs the issue with the forums from what I can see.
If Blizzard staff want to have personal opinions on real life issues they should do it on their own personal social media accounts, not during a Blizzard announcement about World of warcraft.
I play wow and I like to talk about wow but when I come on the forums and its just posts about politics/religion/gender etc etc it makes me instantly not want to use the forums for the day as some of you enjoy talking about those facts but from my point of view I see enough about it outside of WoW and this is my vice from real life. I do think they should add a seperate forum for those who wish to talk about such things and leave the gaming forums to be about gaming exclusively.
The problem here though, and itâs honestly what most of the last couple of dramas has been about, is that you have players/posters who considers just the fact that acknowledging certain people exist is a âpolitical statementâ.
Well thatâs why adding a rule of no discussions about real life politics or things like that in the rules would stop that too, It would be a blatant closing of the thread in an unbiased way. It makes it clear if you steer into real world âissuesâ your post will be deleted, Even if youâre on the âgood sideâ
I do get your point but just want to mention that the recent gender topics (I am presuming you mean the topics about gender identity) were about the game because of the upcoming inclusion of a new character that people were discussing. However those topics did go sideways too.
You can also mute topics so they no longer appear on your screen at all.
I understand your point, but again, I think it still gets problematic, since things like having an attraction to people of the same gender, isnât political. Itâs just, well, like anything else, merely how things are/normal.
And treating it as politics is not only wrong but it also gives ground to & takes a stance with those who are opposed to it, thus making it political.
And I think itâs why we already have strict rules in place about topics we arent allowed to touch or words we arent allowed to use. Ultimatly WoW is a game and hobby for everyone across the globe & for people to enjoy. And in order to keep it that way, it is entierly fair to not allow certain arguments in the game/on the forums that specifically are aimed at not accepting others. For instance, having a zero tolerance on homophobia/anti-trans views are entierly fine. Itâs not a restriction of freedom of speech, itâs a way to make sure that everyone can enjoy the game without trouble & harassment.
Basically a right to exist & enjoy the game. And those who are opposed to it can take it up elsewhere, since they are still allowed to play the game. Them not being able to show disdain towards these people isnât impairing that ability, but having hatred thrown at these groups is impairing.
It shouldnât be political period as far as Iâm concerned. But if they are gonna invite politics in their game then people will want to talk about that. Unfortunately that does not go down as it should cause some people feel like other opinions are illegal and will go to obsessive lengths to shut them down because they think itâs their civic duty or something.
They should, but I doubt all of them will. Certainly not the GM who banned that guy cause he bothered the GMs favorite streamer.
The gender topics werent not the ones your referencing as those are actual about game aspects.
Personally if they have something to do within wow its fair game but to bring up topics that have absolutely nothing to do with WoW it shouldnt be allowed or atleast should be on a forum that its relevant to.
An example being the time when the HK stuff was literally flooding the forums for days. Like unless you live under a rock youâd know whats going on but it still doesnt belong on a gaming forum because what impact do they think telling a bunch of wow players will do?
I agree with you but the point is what is it got to do with World of Warcraft? My sister is gay and I support her, However any issue from being gay in real life should be discussed else where, this is a forum for World of Warcraft discussion.
If someone talked about the storyline involving a gay character in a constuctive way and mentioned the story for a reason, I would tottaly agree with it. However talking about oppresion randomly on a game forum about World of Warcraft every single day is not the place for such things.
Okay, yeah thatâs a fair point, and I would be fine with this as well & agree with this. Itâs better to leave the discussions here, particuarly on the general forms, to be about the game itself.
Weâre on the same page now! Apologies if I got it a bit muddled.
Blizzardâs actual blue post is about them changing the pronouns used to refer to a character. They were using they/them and upon receiving feedback changed it to match the chosen gender of the character.
They didnât actually sign post anything. The community noticed it in testing and gave feedback. Blizzard responded.
The thing is I fully support LGBT+ and BLM but I still understand there is a time and place for those discussions and frankly its not on a gaming forum. Thats just my two cents though.
Iâm glad they are introducing more representation to the game but its best to keep discussion minimal because the topic is too emotive and ends badly every time sadly.
I think there is a heavy stigma to talk about politics, but I also think its healthy to do so. Itâs generally better to be able to discuss diffrent views to better understand how other people think & reach some form of understanding.
But as both Baltic & Mervil put it, a gaming forum is definatly not the best place for it.
Incidently, I also believe Blizzard already has a policy(or used to have) about politics not being allowed in the General/Trade chats ingame, so it wouldnt be strange to see it extended to the forums. Atleast Iâve seen US blue posts specifically saying that this is the case atleast.
Thatâs kind of the point, Even the people who arenât anti gay or different genders have arguments about what to call someone who feels a certain way, So what Blizzard should have done imo was just tell everyone âthatâs the way we have done it, itâs not personal opinions on what someone should be called or what they indentify as , itâs just a game we mean no offense to anyone, there is no discussion to be had, no matter what way we do it someone will be upsetâ
Thatâs the issue someone is always outraged no matter what, So just donât allow the discussion because itâs not up for debate.
I donât think they thought about the pronouns used when they created the dialogue. Now they have had feedback and adjusted it accordingly.
This would have been a non issue except for people jumping on the OMG itâs one transgender character in WoW. Most of these discussions are brought to the forums by players. It is in the context of WoW. I donât see an issue with people discussing things like this. Iâm just kind of disappointed with some of the outlooks people have.
