Way back in Dec we got a 5% damage increase for Havoc, it changed very little and we are still the worst dps class.
Now frost mages have been given a 9% increase, even though mages have fire doing well for them.
I don’t understand why Blizz felt frost mages were more important to buff over Havoc when its clear we need it more.
So now mages have 2 very viable classes with great dps and we are still stuck with no dps class that is viable. Fun times.
Imagine, they originally thought DHs were supposed to be fine prior to the 5% increase…
If current state of DH is not an insult, I don’t know what is.
I feel you guys. I remember having no problem getting invite to the group in Mythic + in BFA. Now I had to switch to Veng , cuz it’s next to impossible to get invitation. Sad , but true.
If the player is good he will get invited.I befriended two really awesome Havoc DHers.I would invite them always if they are online to a M+ run.Everything is up to the player.I agree some classes are better but if the player sucks it doesn’t matter what he plays.
DH brings good utilities.
1.Imprison is good for skipping.Only rogue sap is its equal.Especially for SoA or Mots.
2.Interrupt and dispel
3.Darkness
4.Aoe stun
Why does everything has to be connected to dmg only?I just don’t get it.What is wrong with bringing good utility?
If i have to compare a havoc to a ret i would always take the DH.
Imprison in both dung can be replaced with invis pot or simply any monk with paralyse and ring of piece.
Interupt has every class, dispel is 1 magical buff/10s same can be done by mage and mage takes the benefit for himself
Darkness is good but you are lock in position, not good in many affixes and fights, ranged and healers needs to stack positionally get more dmg than prevented.
Aoe stun like monk, lock, dont depends on uses it shares DR, sometimes is better just aoe fear
there is many classes that do what we do, just better
The Frost buff is a meme anyway, everyone will keep playing Fire anyway.
But yes, Havoc is still dog 
, literally thousands of DPS behind on some fights.
That’s the biggest joke I’ve heard this year so far. People will always prefer the top specs. When you see 50 DPS in your LFG apps you’re not going to look into a crystal ball and see which player is good.
Paralyse is better. Imprison doesn’t work on Undead.
Every class has a kick these days
In M+ tanks usually kite
Sure, but Ret is also dog 
Don’t worry %9 frost and %8 assassin buffs are came. But still both specs are performing bad. I and most rogue players as well as mages and you Dhunters stated before, % dmg buff not fixing specs. They need to work on it. It seems they never , ever looked these specs as dev work before they realease this Expansion. So you should say “fix” not “buff”. Because in PvP you are doing good.
I don’t play often with monks.I know for certain imprison and sap don’t make you take aggro unlike the rest of the Ccs.Is paralisis the same?Not pulling aggro?
I know your pain. Arms and Fury were considered fine at the pre-patch and have had respectively two and three buffs after release due to their poor performance. And it’s still too little.
I am 90% sure sap and imprison are the only ccs in game that won’t aggro the mob when you come close.
Monk cc 100% pulls aggro like sheep, hex and freezing trap.
This only makes sense when you play in a group of friends.
How do randomers know you are a good player or not?
Everything you mentioned other classes can bring plus more, on top of that DH tank is so popular so 1,2 are already usually in the group.
The stats don’t lie, DH Havoc sucks.
[FROST MAGE BUFF BUT HAVOC STILL IGNORED]
are you sure you read the entire changelog? havoc also got buffed, read further down.
also what kind of logic is “why buff frost mage when they can just swap to fire”? okay, so why buff havoc when they can just swap to vengeance and be the most overtuned, unbalanced tank this game has seen?
Imagine having a spec thats better than EVERY other spec of that role, on EVERY type of content, by a VERY large margin, and still whining lol. why are they buffing frost mage when fire mage is doing fine lol.
Maybe because tank and DPS is not the same role? Wouldn’t expect the FOTM resto to understand. Clearly comparing two mage DPS specs is the same thing as telling people that want to dps to go tank?
You are posting in literally every post on the DH forum whining about vengeance, Did a DH tank steal your tank spot before you rerolled shaman?
There were no fotm tanks for me to reroll to before vengeance dhs showed up 
i just find it hilarious how the class that has admitedly the most broken, overtuned pve spec in the game atm, is ALSO the class that has nothing but whine posts asking for buffs on the front page of its forums.
Also, you’re right, a leather-wearing, dual wielding, high mobility melee dps is such a unique role, people who enjoy that have no other option but to wait for Havoc buffs. Mages can just respec from frost to fire, they’re not allowed to enjoy frost more and want it to be a competitive spec, because fire is good. But havoc DHs can’t just play a ww monk or a rogue which are literally the exact same thing with different ability names.
Clicking a respec button and perhaps changing covenant (which is free without penalty first time) and having to make a whole new seperate character is not the same thing, Of course if they want to play frost for example they should be able to and still stay relevant, But atleast they have some better spec available for the meantime.
If havoc is too easy to be able to be good like you said in a different post maybe the spec is flawed and they should rework the spec? Or add a third spec which is harder and more rewarding (like fire mage for example compared to frost)
Right now havoc DHs wanting to stay DPS have one option and that is reroll while the other bottom specs are 2nd or 3rd specs that have one top tier spec they can use for one tier. Aside from warriors that have all 3 trash specs sadly.
Vengeance being good is not relevant to havoc at all. It is not a dps spec. That’s like me telling you to “just” go enhance if resto were to become a bottom tier healer. Sure you could do that, but it’s not the role you want to play
I agree that we have some utility - but as a class that has only 1 dps spec we do need our damage to be at the very least competitive. I’m sure you’ve seen how we are performing in ST that utility does not help vs a boss on tyrannical.
Darkness - a 5 min Rgn defensive. If your tank and healer are doing their job it’s not needed only as a backup.
CB - 5% is 5% no argument here, but it’s not enough to justify our very poor ST
Imprison - yeah that’s fine mage have infinite cc other classes have cc, ours is on 1 min cd it’s nothing special.
Mobility - great we can fly around, again it’s no justification for keep our dps low it’s real value is in open world or specific boss mechanics but not a requirement
If you think dps is not that important, that’s great I respect attitude and opinion but for me, dps is important my class has only 1 dps spec I want it to be competitive.
It takes less than 24 hours to level a character from 1 to 60. And I dont mean with premade routes and boost-groups, i mean with normal dungeon queueing and doing the WoD bonus objectives inbetween. You could have made about 200 lvl 60 alts since SL lunched.
If havoc in shadowlands was SO unplayable that straight up buffs on the entirety of its damage were a “joke” and an “insult”, you would have made one of the identical other specs instead. The only difference would be that your tooltips would read “Arrrr piratey strike!” or “Ommm martial arts grandmaster attack!” instead of “Rawr edgy demon hit!”. But it’s not. The “unplayable, agonizing state of havoc” is just it doing about 2% less dps than most other specs.
And in turn, you have access to a tank spec completely out of line with every and all other tank specs, that you don’t even need to gear for. You don’t need to make sure you have different weapons or non-caster trinkets for it, like I would need if I was to switch to enh. You just keep the same weapons on, you keep the same agi trinkets you had on as havoc, and you just roflstomp faceroll your way to instant invites to get your weekly vault done. This is how “unplayable” demon hunters are. Thats like a hunter crying that he gets kicked from groups when people realize he is playing survival. Its your choice to play the meme spec.
So your solution is to become a FOTM player and reroll everytime a spec is bad rather than to have blizzard do their job and balance the specs like they should? The 2% less dps havoc is doing “compared to other specs” is compared to the 2nd and 3rd specs of the FOTM specs. In ST the difference is more like 25% compared to what’s up at the top.
Once again you have mentioned vengeance which is a TANK spec and has nothing to do with the DPS spec we are currently discussing like you have some personal vendetta against vengeance. Once tanks get a little more gear in the upcoming tier and this whole run around while mobs chase you meta slowly trickles away even vengeance is going to lose their strength.
Just like your example with mages: Survival hunter is a DPS spec, MM hunter is a DPS spec. They are the same role. Havoc and Vengeance is not. Maybe all the ret pallys should reroll holy? That would fix their issue too!
What a kido topic, Demon Hunter have great spec too it is called vengeance. And if you play dps on hybrid class you must count that you can get in to situation that your dps spec is not between best, you were best in BFA and Legion it is time for you to see how bottom look like. Frost mage is still far behind fire and pvp even worse than Havoc so stop crying.