just leave the grp and join a better grp if everyone does above 170k you win.
I think that you are giving the difficulty too much credit.
What wipes the raid in p3 is just 2 things:
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Enrage (boss casting his roar with no seed used).
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Multiple seeds exploding at the same time (and wiping the raid due to aoe damage).
Sure the fight at first glance and at the first weeks seemed daunting, but multiple strategies and gear made it trivial.
- Damage in phase 2 matters (to the point that some groups used bl). This greatly reduced the damage needed in p3, and made wiping to enrage almost impossible if all seeds were used.
- The strategy of splitting seed carries to the left, the raid group to the right, and meeting at the middle to use seeds made the fight REALLY easy for carries. For most pugs I volunteer for seed duty as melee, and generally it is really easy (unless playing with people that do not know the tactics).
- People understanding that they need to GTFO with cyclones.
- The gear we took during the patch has made the dps check trivial, with the only check being healing (or put better, dispelling).
To be fair, previous bosses on heroic were way harder (especially first weeks). Just for comparison:
Raz:
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Was INSANELY tuned at the start, and together with way lower gear acquisition made it one of the worst AotC bosses to ever exist.
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Had one shot mechanics that were not well telegraphed (pathing of the breath), and insta wipes (adds in 2nd intermission) on a fight that took more than 10 minutes at the start of the season.
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And frankly it was WAY more punishing with mistakes, as the enrage at p3 of the fight was actually tight (+ it phase at the same %, making it not skippable with deaths mattering way more).
And for Sarkareth (for me the worst offender):
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While not as hard as Razageth at the start of the expansion, the damage check and healing check were actually pretty hard.
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Had one of, if not THE worst visual clarity of ANY fight (purple and blue on everything).
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Bombs had responsibility similar to seeds on Fyrakk.
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The WORST offender IMHO, was the tank frontal in p3. Combined with the bad visual clarity, tanks and the WHOLE raid, could not stand in front of the boss, as ANYONE taking the debuff other than a tank (and going down) would wipe the raid.
TLDR:
I feel that fyrakk is fine more or less (in line with other end bosses this expansion), but he doesn’t reach the overtuning of Razageth, or the potential for wipes from mistakes of Sarkareth (with those frontals).
If tornadoes are dropped to close that’s a skill issue and if people with seeds don’t know how to manage blaze with seeds that is once again a skill issue.
I’ve been in groups where enough of the group have “zug zug” brain that I know there’s no point in staying after the first wipe. That seems to cause fails on p3 because you can mostly just dps and heal through mechanics on p1 and p2.
I’ve also been in groups where everyone is focused on mechanics over dps meters, and we one-shot it.
Player created problems. Again.
The heroic end-boss doesn’t need to be easy for averagely skilled players to pug, it’s guild content. Look at any other heroic endboss going back to the introduction of the current raiding system (normal/heroic/mythic) in WOD and M+ in Legion.
Nothing has really changed, Heroic raiding is still easy to over gear and inferior to M+ anyway. Mythic raiding is still too hard, time consuming and unrewarding for the majority to care about. So maybe there is time for a change, but I’m not sure making the HC endboss easily pugged without discord for every level of player skill should be a priority.
You’re really overselling how hard you think this fight is to make your point too.
Hc raiding is not inferior to m+ . Its different.
Main difference is that in m+ you practise practise and practise again and again on liek 15 difficulty level untill you get good enough to handle mechanics and then everything falls over.
In hc raiding you have just huge jump of difficulty from normal and then to mythic because you dont have like 10 difficulty levels each differing 8-10 % only just as if you jumped directly from 16 to 20 instantly - in theory sure doable but in reality you may be shocked that stuff that tickled on 16 is killing people very fast in 20. I experience it last week in +20 BRH where healer just couldnt keep people up when add spawned on last Boss even though we facerolled test of that instance and +2 changed into deplete with 10 minutes overtime because he just wasnt ready - he didnt know hwo to rotate cds etc untill he tried couple of times.
Same is with hc raie pugs - sure you may be lucky to join a one shot pug WHO will carry people not knowing mechanics but if liek 10 people like that meet in 1 group then it turns into progression - and lets be honest - nobody joins those to progress
Wouldn’t exactly call jailer an easy boss fight. If your looking for a good example probably sarkareth. My guild cleared hc abberus much faster then previous tiers something like 6 weeks vs like 12
Kids these days aren’t able to read more than 1 paragraph with more than 3 sentences, thanks to Twitter, Tiktok, etc. You need to dumb it down more on the Internet.
Yes, the last phase in the Fyrakk HC fight is brutal. Blizz have said in several interviews recently that they want to avoid mechanics where 1 person’s mistake can wipe the whole raid, and I think they did a good job this tier at following this design guideline. But this is the last boss of the expansion, so I think it’s OK to make the last phase hard.
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Well duh you just need to read the forums to understand the intelligence of load gamer
BTW, I wanna point out that I had some Fyrakk kills with a guild “on voice” - and it wasn’t particularly different except that you don’t replace half the raid every 2 tries. I disagree that “being in a guild” makes the fight “Easy”. But whatever.
You’re a gamer as well.
Also, nice you see you following the usual MO of pretending to want a discussion and then flipping out with people that disagree with you. I do agree that some responses are really stupid (buy a boost lol)
Add to that the usual cherry picking of opinions (not facts) to support your weak point. Razagath was far tighter tuned and had raid wipe mechanics as well as personal responsibility mechanics. There were also far more ways to lose people to attrition because of the high damage which meant you just bled out slowly. You’ve summarised this to ““I”” killed them quicker.
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Like come on - you are better than that - you can see literally why I got annoyed (and you point it out verbatim) with responses, yet you blame me for “flipping out” while these stupid responses are exactly the reason why I got annoyed, not because someone “just disagrees”.
I expected a varying mileage in responses but “buy a boost” being a recurring theme of answers literally makes me just think people are dumb and there is no point in any kind of discussion.
Heroic is not designed for PuG’ging. The fact that it’s possible at all is a testament to the skill of the PuG’ging community.
Heroic is designed for guilds who feel that Mythic is too organisationally challenging, not to mention too difficult in general.
It requires coordination by design and, to ease you into Mythic, it is more difficult than some of the early Mythic bosses.
If you want to play heroic, I suggest a guild.
I killed fyrakk first week in a pug. Just because Pugs are full of boosted players now, it doesn’t mean Blizzard needs to nerf the Raid. They need to nerf/forbid Boosting, so people don’t cheese themselves into raids that they shouldn’t do. In the first week you could gauge player experience. This became impossible after boosting became affordable, unless you wanna check logs of every single member.
WoW Pugging nowadays is a pain, because of boosting, and because of absence of a queue, there is no real way that players, who start later, can go through the intended learning curve.
JFC I wrote it like 5 times now - I killed Fyrakk with guilds too - wasn’t particularly different than pugging. My last guild Fyrakk kill took 1,5 h of wiping in phase 3 despite voice, assignments, coordination and people being overgeared.
That’s why I get mad with this kind of takes - people think that “guilds” magically make heroic or raiding or whatever intrinsically easier and less challenging.
Meanwhile guilds just shift difficulty into other areas, e.g. guild “Friend” andies who are like by RL and are being carried while constantly dragging the group down with no way of kicking them out - “officers on demonic alts”, etc. And Discord doesn’t make heroic raiding particularly easier than calling with /RW macros - calling out something on Discord won’t magically make people act like thinking human beings.
The “guild” approach is not only overrated but is a subject to some magical thinking. I’ve been in various guilds during my WoW tenure and SOME PUGS have way better time clearing full heroic raids or even mythic boss pugs than most of your “guilds”.
That’s where I’m gonna leave the topic - just my 2 cents re. “get a guild” advice.
It doesn’t matter if it “makes the life of PuG’s miserable”. It’s not designed for PuG’s.
If a guild can clear Fyrakk in 1.5h it should be doing Mythic probably. It’s simply better than the average HC guild.
I fail to see any problems here. Why are you making this thread?
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I’m not sure if this has been mentioned already as I can’t be bothered to read through everything.
But the main issue with heroic contain, is if you want to do it normally with other people, you run the risk of getting people in the raid, who have paid either gold or real money to be boosted through the contain to get the 9/9 or the curve achievement, which a lot of people are requesting to be invited into a heroic raid.
Of course, once the raid is started, most of the people who were invited are just not pulling their weight, not even out dpsing a tank or just in general getting killed from a very basic mechanic.
It’s an unfortunately situation and it’s one that Blizzard has allowed to get to this point.
But heroic content is the most I’ll personally do as I don’t want the frustration of doing Mythic content (raid wise), as I know I just want have the attention needed to do it nor the time to grind all the currency needed to upgrade the gear to even avoid an instant decline to a raid.
Sadly pugs are always going to have a harder time than organised groups.
It really does come down to the leader assigning seeds, and people understanding they have to stay on sides. Tornadoes no matter what have to be taken out, it doesn’t matter if it’s time to stack. You just go die alone.
Good guilds certainly do.
Mediocre guilds certainly take weeks to progress on bosses like that. And then wipe "on farm ".
And its ok.
Not everyone Has to Play on level of echo 
Its a recurring theme of one particular poster in every thread - they using alts in this one too