least biased classicandy
Blizzard should ban GDKPs in classic the same as SOD.
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You are full of nonsense comparing tbc to cata p1 in terms of raidlogs 
Tbc literally had 3 raid bosses in two of their raids combined which meant it was inflated extremely much and karazhan was a loot pinata you would run with all of your alts without any gear requirements aside Nightbane.
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Cata Week 2 got more people loging then TBC week2.
The raids were not even released on launch, lmao.
i never knew anything about gdkp, my income came from making potion of speed at wotlk p1. Then i joined one with my 8k budget now and realized how better it is compared to SR runs. in naxx / ulduar you had to contest against 10 people with 3x SR on caster trinket then people leaving if their sr didnt drop.
also GDKP clears full hardmode/heroics.
Just saying u are also supporting rmt on runs where leader goes “tokens gbid boe hr” =)
That was a Legion/BFA issue, not SL. In Shadowlands you had renown, which effectively replaced reputation rather than being a currency like Artifact Power, you couldn’t fall behind because it was simply a gated system tied to the story progression, if you missed this week you could simply catch up next week.
Initially they did make the mistake of putting legendary crafting currency only in torghast, but they eventually corrected that issue. Many of the issues of SL were launch patch issues, so like I said if you took the final version of SL and made it into a “SL Classic” it wouldn’t have any of the big issues associated with the launch of the game.
By contrast, Cataclysm actually DOES have this issue, because the valor cap resets to 0/1600 each week, so if you miss this week too bad, you’re simply behind.
I don’t know what kind of GDKP runs you found, but on my two servers you would be laughed at with that kind of budget. Even in WotLK P1.
I didn’t do GDKP myself, but I had friends who did. I remember them getting outbid at 30k+ gold in 80 Naxx just weeks into the expansion. They would definitely not invite someone with 8k budget.
True, these runs are also problematic and should be avoided.
BS, joined GDKP runs on naked twinks week 2/3 of p1, and got pretty full gear in 1 run, spending around 30-40k+got like 6-10 back.
Guys with 10k was welcome in our runs.
Fair point although do keep in mind that you realistically need only roughly 10 weeks to get enough Valor for all the items you might need and that’s assuming you don’t get tier pieces from BH. Anything beyond that is an extra as by the time P3 rolls it’s gonna get converted into JP which have a total cap and we’ll all start from 0.
My dude did you even play shadowlands? You could be behind with renown i believe, in s2 you had to farm some stuff for weeks just to get gems. Class balance did not exist (atleast in pvp cata is way more balance). Also Broken mmr made some rewards completely worthless or made half of ladder quit mid season. Second half of expansion was giga dead. Sl even disbanded many guilds. Saying sl is not bad Is the most fried take ever. Actually from my personal pov (and its also something i’ve Heard a lot from other people) cata > wrath so far. Wrath was hyper however it rly shower how old it is as raid bosses were npcs with more hp, one of worst pvp ever, trash class balance etc. Wrath is not a good expansion by todays standards and even bfa/now dragonflights are imo way better.
Tldr wrath is trash. Cata is just the most unlucky expansion of all time cos first 2 seasons were actually really good. Sadly lol came out during cata + last tier was the longest raid tier ever (while not being as good as others).
You believe wrong, renown was a weekly gated system with catchup. I could start a new alt and be caught up the same week I hit max level. The purpose of anima in Shadowlands was purely cosmetic.
Says who, because there are nowhere near as many people playing Cata, there are nowhere near as many raids running. I’ve heard nobody so far say that Cata > Wrath. You’re welcome to your opinion but it smells off.
Nobody plays PvP so nobody cares.
Every expansion disbanded many guilds, this is a meaningless anecdote. The biggest disbander of guilds is time and life.
Cata is the worst expansion in the history of the game. Cata launch raids were incredibly buggy, untuned and unfinished, the world first race was a clown town. Firelands was the only good raid.
10 weeks is a long time to catchup on pre-raid loot. Imagine in 2 few weeks I level a new alt, that alt is forever behind by the 5 weeks since Cata launched, or 8000 valor. By the time you’d have finished farming that valor we’d probably be approaching Firelands release. No catchup system for valor cap is punishing for alts or late players.
What you want is for the players to be able to farm all of it if they want within 1-2 weeks so they can stand a chance of getting into the raid. Since as time goes by the barrier of entry to the raid will increase every week, as will guild expectations on recruitment.
Ye i Guess you wouldnt be permanently behind as you could get +3 renown weekly (+ you had to do quests on every single character which was the most aids ever and prolly reason why i was Always behind) + random renown if youre behind however how Is that different from legion/bfa? There was sort of catch up too. You had to do quests too. It was actually pretty much same except it looked different. Yes you could farm it infinitely however the difference was So small it didnt matter. Like spending a week Farming would give you +2 item lvl on your neck. Not many people would do that actually.
Well i guess since you dont prolly play pvp it doesnt matter to you however thats rather ignorant point of view cos like in wod there were as many people playing pvp as pve. Also sl s1 had one of highest pvp participation in last decade while sl S4 had prolly the lowest one ever (like 10 times lower). So yes there are people who care or atleast used to care about pvp or would care if there was some effort put into it.
I Guess you werent around huh.
Well as time has shown it is actually not. Its fine to not enjoy something however your opinion =/= facts.
The barrier of entry you speak of is solely player made. Keep in mind it will only be raised higher the easier it is to gear up to specific standards. Anyone that will lack time to spend in Heroics non stop to get Valor will still be excluded but at the same time feel obligated to spend all their time on that catch-up.
Legion AP was a massive part of your player power and someone who farmed AP heavily was massively ahead on player power even if they had the same gear and each spec was its own grind. Legion was the grindiest version of the game to date on multiple levels (AP, Legendaries, Titanforging), it wasn’t until late Legion that catchup was reasonable enough that the power differences between players from AP weren’t so large.
BFA repeated this entire mistake by locking off Azerite powers to neck levels that were unattainable without grinding non-stop. Again, it took a while for Blizzard to reverse the repeat of this mistake. BFA grind for power was ridiculous for a significant part of BFA because the catchup lagged behind the phase progression, if you didn’t grind you were behind the curve.
Shadowlands didn’t have an endless grind for a borrowed power, the soulbinds progressed over time and catchup was in from the start, you’d simply catchup and arrive at the same point as everyone else. Shadowlands had the legendary currency grind in Torghast, which was a mistake, but it was insignificant compared to any previous grinds and once you were done you were done, and then they removed the Torghast requirement entirely.
Of course it’s player made, but the end result is the same. Cata doesn’t have a catchup and 10 weeks is significant, to the extent a player intending to raid would simply have to skip out on these items entirely, there is no way to catchup if doing so would take the entirety of the phase spanning months.
My point is that 10 weeks is very significant and you’re posting as if it’s insignificant, that it would take 10 weeks to catchup on effectively pre-raid items due to the weekly cap design is exactly the issue.
You’re right this is my mistake but I do feel like that introducing a catch up in the form of Valor Points earning cap stacking up would introduce additional problems. Of course we know that player base is mostly consisting of elitist pricks that believe themselves better than others. Putting ability to grind yourself up to speed with time sounds appealing if you have said time. Otherwise you’ll more likely going to burn yourself out or just never catch up regardless because your time allocation will not allow you to do so. Lemme put it this way… With each passing week you’ll need to do 7 random heroic runs more if you reach said point. So in say week 10 if you just got to level cap and want to catch up you’ll have to run 70 Heroic Dungeons each taking between 20-40 minutes depending on your team and role and whether or not you get kicked for being a “leech”. Possible in theory but not really that feasible now is it?
How much gold balance do you need for T11 Cata GDKPs these days? Wondering if I should swipe for some gold, getting tired of dumbasses in SR pug runs not being able to do simple 30 IQ check mechanics.
hav you run with them as seller in ICC ? if not then i would imagine it would be almost impossible to get into those runs any other way then as buyer atm .
I have not played the game at all during ICC. I see them advertising in LFG chat all the time so surely they must be looking for people? At least on my realm
Yeah there are negatives on both sides of the isle, but the way retail works currently in Dragonflight is exactly this and it seems to be mostly taken as a popular feature. In the next expansion they are taking the next step and making things more account bound.
For me personally the idea of doing 70 heroic dungeons in a row is a complete “no thankyou” so I can definitely see where you’re coming from, but being permanently behind is also not fun.