I couldn’t agree more. Thats why i created the forum thread - I’ve got 380 ilvl if i equip my BiS gear (Currently in my speedset) and i have 8 lvl 120s which are not all geared but most of them have 370+ in their BiS sets. I have done 1 mythic 10 since BFA started. The only thing i get gear from is Emisarrys and fat titanforges from my weekly duelist caches. I shouldn’t even be close to mythic raiders ilvl yet i am. So i have the gear, why would i want to go raid? for a achievement? omegafknlul. I dont know how these 3-4 people in the thread can defend it. Subs are declining, mythic dungeon participation is at an all time low, there are no 3s ques arena and i hardly ever see guilds advertising for recruitments anymore.
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Why should I? Invasions give my main better and more often loot than M+, also BiS trinkets are in PvP in anyhow along with a ring. So why bother pushing keys. This is like paying a somebody to sit on a chair 8 hours day to watch a camera € 100 a hour, then find it weird nobody is willing to work at the finance department anymore where they pay the normal wage of € 50 a hour sort to say. Maybe it’s because the easier job is getting paid twice as much?
Your main is an 7/8 mythic according to achivements and other things .
Invasion give 370 gear
Mythic raid gives 385 gear
Invasion gear you need to be 363 to be able to get 370 gear .
Destruct you used to be a decent poster posting facts and realism dealing with proper debates now you are talking utter nonsense there is no way invasions give you better then your 7/8 mythic raider i want solid proof of this as i refuse to belive it .
Everyone can see your achivements and raiding char so please dont treat us as stupid people .
I also know your DH main but i wount post it here as i respect your privacey but please dont treat us as stupid .
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WoW isn’t a progression MMO anymore. It’s a “fun” MMO now. That’s why it’s dying.
Every time Blizzard tries to make the game more “fun”, they remove progression elements and make one more step into the grave.
Forget about gear progression, you’re supposed to do the content because it’s “fun” now.
No Blizz, that’s not why people play MMOs.
I was gearing up my warrior about 5 days (recently) while I did spend about 1,5 month or so on my hunter at the beggining of xpac, so mainly I ment my hunter. My girlfriend is playing along and she has higher ilvl only because she is playing longer than I on her characters. At the same time she is incapable of doing Mythic+ at all because she is not able to sustain any decent consistant dps nor interupt casting etc. Whenever I create a new character (I do switch a lot) and attempt its development, all I meet durring M+ is high ilvl people with no skill. What is pushing ilvl progression forward on a new character is not so much time you spent farming but ammount of weeks durring which you get free loot. I do feel that I am not able to explain my situation or feeling very well as I am missing lot of aspects. BFA however is somehow making me not enjoy the loot system more than ever, I feel that everything I do is pointless. I feel like it is time gating + free loot durring those gates that makes me not enjoy it, and I have not had this feeling durring any previous xpacs.
Confirmed new gear lvls from season 2 let the whine commence .
I can sense fake foaming mouths from poeple with fake rage at new item lvls.
I can see it now
" i hate the new item lvls wahhh wahhh but i shall still wear it hulk fake smash"
I actually really enjoy the idea of “ladder reset” that comes with a patch. I can pick a character and play with good players. At the same time all free loot is invalidated which is great! It is the middle/end of patch season that is causing me not want to play and get better rewards, because I always feel behind all the “free looters”
I like the way that
New item lvls mean higher cap needed to enter Warfronts also you will need high item lvl to get the new 385 Wq caches.
Also dungeons are being made 30% harder and so is Darkshore mobs .
Wount be free loot then and the best players will get the best gear .
Yes, perhaps there is a reason why I always keep comming back to games like Path of Exile / Diablo / WoW durring patch resets. I suppose this will end mine and others complaints about free loot for a couple of weeks durring which we enjoy fresh start!
It will not however eliminate the root cause and when free loot stacks enough, we would back at the forums complaining. Mostly about the fact that free loot over time will again invalidate everyones effort, as we will not be able to get ahead of noobs which played long enough.
Im to tired and to ill to debate this anymore but free loot is never going to be the best gear and if people only think about loot its shallow imho.
Its meant to be about friends/guild mates having a good time and pushing youself there is no way a causal player like me and you will ever match the gear or skill of top raider via WF or WQ.
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The fun didn’t quite land yet either.
Islands and warfronts aren’t really entertaining.
For me fun was working towards a goal, and also combat like in MoP was a lot more fun.
It’s pointless for me to explain why we do this, because they will always fall abck to:
-It’s about the fun (people tried to me convince to run normals this way)
-But the base Il is lower/higher.
Yes it’s but you kill stuff once first, then it’s a grind. And when then non-raiding and non-M+ (hey I’m not a fan aswell of teh current M+) get the same IL as atleast HC it’s a slap in the face. Catch-up is catch-up increasing IL to upwards 400 do is artifically make people skip too much content. And I already explained why I don’t pug anymore, but of course nobody answers that. IL is a lie, you can’t trust it anymore. Pugs went down in quality hard post WoD, M+ was a horror for me as a pugger in Legion. You should have seen some of the people, high gear but oh so crappy. You wondered how they got so highly geared…
There is a reason raiderIO now exist, I hate the site but I support their goal. Overgeared people who never touched M+ or raiding, instantly jumping to HC or a high key and then just screwing it all up. Not only when they have to be kicked they wasted the group’s time, they get demotivated themselves. But what did Blizzard? Well you got (ranges are 374 to what 379 I read here) thanks to TF and/or doing easy daily content 376 IL! Join that +10! Join that HC!
There was a natural progression. I have no problems with warforging +10 doesn’t matter for me. But it doesn’t even stop at +15 it goes all the way to the end, know what demotivates me? Knowing I need to do easy/lesser content to pray for magic TF on BiS stat items. Hence one the reasons I’m also against this trend of making gear useless, you can’t judge somebody by IL anymore, some overlap will always exist but indeed when you see people who never touched M+, high rated PvP or even a normal raid over 370 is demoralizing. I was 364 on alts pre-8.1 by doing WQ, warfronts when the quest was up and world bosses alone. No forging, 8.1 pushed my char 374 in no time (again no forging). I didn’t feel pride I was wondering how this was possible, how they allowed this.
This IL hike was done too early, it was better to do easy invasions WQs than to farm a raid, I mean more items is more chances at forging the stuff and not the stats were better for me.
I will keep disagreeing with the following:
-Titanforging
-Non-raid repeatable content rewarding 400 IL (Except Ivus he gets a pass simply because 1 world boss is oke) loot, this means the invasions and the warfront quest.
If you don’t raid next tier (and no M+) you should cap out based on loot drop between/around 370-385 and not have the potential to go (taking my own char where it stranded) 394+. Because at that point you’re nearly fully HC geared, so jump into normal pray for TF and learn? feels bad. Jump into HC for the last few slots? Yeah we secured that with AotC to not have endless wipes anymore.
People complain about raiderIO and AotC requirements, but remember it’s not because people are elitist. It’s simply because thanks so much catch-up gear and also TF being in the game Blizzard’s own precious metric of IL isn’t trustworthy anymore. And the gear and IL inflation are getting out of hand.
Like I said I used to be happy to have a few normal raid IL gear from world bosses on an alt, BfA stepped this up and made me indiffirent even to HC. Yes the patch will reset it but give it 3 week or more and we are back at the same point.
Concerning people saying you don’t AFK in a warfront, most do. Artifical like “wait till the gate is down, have a tea party!”, “We made bullet spunges so people can’t progress too fast” and “Why am I even here? 3 people are enough to do this alone”. Hence why they gave the bats at the end of Darakshore I presume, in Arathi especially there is tons of downtime. A battle and most time you spend is waiting till a gate goes down and chopping wood. But you got HC+ Uldir loot for it! I got a blasted 395 for it and before I stepped into mythic I didn’t need to replace pants ever again. Well that was 1 slot wasted before I even got into the raid.
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Out of everything i read in here maybe first 20 posts this ones stands out the most as an actual issue which has the biggest side effect.
It invalidates current content.
I’m not going to say people shouldn’t be able to get better gear, but the sheer volume of it needs to be toned down.
BFA right now is like a monkey rustling a tree and bunches of banana’s fall out.
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Well that WF isnt being updated only Darkshore ive linked the post .
Also will you please stop ignoreing or skipping the fact to get 370 item lvl caches and invasions caches you need 363/364 anyways and this will also raise when it goes to 385 .
Also they are making dungeons and world mobs hit harded and take longer with the itm upgrade it wount be so much free loot .
Really cant see the moan over a 400 item lvl piece every 3 weeks even if really really lucky its going to take about a year to gather all slots .
Well EN was content right up until pre patch BFA due to WF/TF and Legendary chance but i guess they killed that idea with it being said that WB’s and Ulduar item lvl will not be going up .
I never ignored it, It’s not how but that it’s possible. Giving away HC+ items so easily. Which skews the whole IL system to base/judge on. Thus you get “link AotC, we will check armory if you aren’t faking it” groups came into existence.
I dont know if its a langauge barrier between us or something or you are trying to wind me up /troll me will you please get over the item lvl being 370 it doesnt show skill .You then say about raider IO and warlogs this is the best way to make groups .I hate both sites myself but it needs to be done .
If you honestly sit there and think i take that guy with 375 without looking up privious runs and logs then you are a fool to yourself and the group you are going to take .It takes seconds to look somebody up if you are that bothered about decent pugs that taking time and precaution is the best way .
Its like a broken record with you a stuck cd you are so fixited ,i get the feeling you just raid for yourself and for gear and not your friends/guild/team .
You never ever base a player on item lvl its asking for trouble they could be boosted and in your view i suspec that is just as bad a fake rage free epics .
If your that digusted with your pants diss/scrap them and wear a blue .
You also forgot, do incursions and get 370 loot and at times you can get 370 from certain emissaries.
Destruct you are most annoying poster on the forum. Don’t tell me how you ever pug the content in the game because I doubt that, since you like to act so leet and so egocentric, I doubt that you would pug anything with some people which you consider to be just " scrubs ", that would be bellow your grade, so there is no reason for you to be obsessed so much with what other people get in the game. And if you are mythic raider you have been above 380 il on your main now for months. Mythic raid dropped 385 il pieces as baseline, and has no luck factor involved. Every method how a casual could get anywhere near that il involved luck and RNG, through warforges/titanforges and weekly chests.
The game actually always has been like this, and always will be. New raid tier comes out, that drops higher ilvl loot… so effectively everyone is on an equal playing field again. You don’t want new raid tiers to drop higher ilvl loot? You don’t want people to have fair chances at entering a new raid tier, especially those who quit and took a few months break? There have been catch up mechanics in the game since TBC.
Even vanilla even had some catchup mechanics with BG rewards and dungeon sets added later on.
Also with the new patch incoming for the people which are now around 380 il , and never step into a raid or mythic+, all these scaling rewards aren’t going to scale up to 400 il until they will be closer to it.
People will have 1 guaranteed 400 il piece every 3 weeks with Darkshore warfront quest, and 1 chance every 3 weeks from Darkshore wafront world boss.
Emissary caches, incursions, and such will scale to 400, but only for the people which are close already to 400 il.
So there will be almost impossible for them to get from 385 il to 395ish from 1-2 items every 3 weeks.
Yeah, in 3 months some will be close enough and emissaries and incursions will start giving them 400 il pieces. And by that time all the mythic raiders will be drowning in 415 for 3 months.
And most non-raiders/non-mythic+ people are closer now to 375 il range with their only 385 pieces being from Darkshore warfront. Before 8.1 dropped it would have been close to 355.
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I think it really comes down to what situations you are finding yourself in, how do you play, with whom do you play, how often, gaming habbits etc. Whatever you guys type in here, does not change the fact that loot system is broken in some peoples opinions and I think there are more people than ever complaining about this, which says there is an issue.
Its the least fun loot system for me since couple of xpacs I played. To the point where I have decided to crawl out of my hole and start posting on forums, for the first time in many years I play this game. We are here on the forums to display that loot issue, so that devs may want to consider changing or tempering this.
All your arguments make sense, perhaps devs went all through the same discussions durring development, but that does not change the fact its detracting fun for many of us. Tell me if there is a better way to provide feedback and I will comply.