Did you ever think about this PoV…
All classes are the same, they don’t bring any unique party/raid buff.
What do you do?
You invite all the nr1 tanks, nr1 healers and nr1 DPS classes into your raid.
You most likely have 2 Prot warrs, 4 Rdudu’s or disco priests and about 10-15 mages
Congratulations, you cleared the raid but you have effectivily denied 95% off the playerbase that doesn’t play these classes.
Sorry, but with highest key being 11, and raiding LFR, your opinions literally do not matter to anyone with a braincell, how exactly is anyone meant to take you seriously?
You do no content that matters, your transmog is revolting, your opinions are wrong, my day 1 alts i dinged this week have more bragging rights then your entire account, the only metric you have to brag about is forum trollposts, maybe go outside and touch some grass ? your not even worth the oxygen it takes to posts these replies.
I’m cringing so hard reading your replies. Just bury the topic and move on.
Imaging having the audacity to tell everyone that they are ‘Objectively’ wrong, while you write tons of delusional words that don’t fit anywhere. You’re a joke really mate
To be fair, this is the same guy who was saying on the forums that he, while playing DH, does more for the group and has more responsibility than the healers and tanks. Just let that sink in before you engage him further in conversation…
Your spot can be decided on many factors, and many of them are not group buffs.
You can get selected for damage, or utility, which could be, mobility, stealth etc…
We already have a way to make classes feel different, without having group buffs and all their downsides.
Also, yea, you people are objectively wrong. And that’s all there is to it.
Group buffs are not the end all be all of design that make your spec unique.
You can disagree with me, but the facts are there.
Please tell me what exactly group buffs bring to the table aside from the things that were already disproven, or redundant.
They literally do nothing for your rotation, they just give you some more damage. You have to bring at least 1 class of each, and if you don’t, or can’t you can kiss a significant portion of damage goodbye, if anything i am shocked that you people seemingly like it so much.
Like did you even think about the implications? What exactly makes them this irreplaceable gift from god?
How is that going to happen in a PuG raid where you apply and nobody knows you?
Stealth is useless in raids, Mobility is meh at best.
All that matters in that situation is you pumping damage.
But as we all know there is always one class #1. That is the only factor in your “ideal” situation.
some classes have bloodlust
some classes have group buffs
some classes have combat res
some classes have healthstones
some classes have immunities that work well with certain encounters
certain class has a shroud
some classes provide mana regen
some classes provide raid wide defensive cooldowns
the list goes on and on
yet you only see the group buffs
I do not see the problem here
this is what adds variety in classes and makes them ‘slightly’ unique and is welcome.
What does fuel do for your car? No honestly. Imagine that liquid sitting there doing nothing. It’s very problematic. If you remove the fuel from a car, it will be lighter and have more space. What is the fuel even doing besides making the car move? It literally does nothing else so i think it’s kind of a bad design.
This is literally you mate.
Maybe, just maybe, it’s you…
I have to say I felt the same when they removed class buffs but began to miss them.
Bringing along a buff makes you feel you passively contributed a bit to the group. I do wish the buffs would be more interesting though.
I has super-happy when Mark/Gift of the Wild was brought back but not so much when I read it was a small versatility buff. Back in Wrath it gave some armor, stats and magic resistance. that was interesting, or at least as interesting as a buff can be.
You know what scares me? the 1% chance that someone will breed this individual one day.
Oh wow an actual argument, thanks.
That can be solved by proper balance, and different damage profiles.
But aside that, i actually thought of something in the middle of this.
The reason why group buffs like bloodlust are fine, is because redundancy, there are many specs that can bring that to the table, and if you don’t have a spec that does you always have crafting stuff like drums.
One way to make group buffs more bearable would be to allow a way to get those buffs even if you don’t have the class, by allowing you to buy the buffs off of auction, as long as they are not significantly weaker. I don’t agree with drums providing half the value for example. I think they should be at 80 or 90% effectiveness so there is still a reason to bring the class, but if you don’t have it, you are not excessively punished.
So here you go, an actual solution with no downsides for both.
The downside is Bloodlust classes again bieing not invited if they aren’t the #1 class.
Balance can’t and will never be totally equal.
The reason Drums are weaker atm is to ensure them a spot in a raid enviroment.
That was my role as a Mage in SL.
Int and BL bot, since my dmg was non existent.
Obviously, perfect balance doesn’t exist.
But bloodlust classes get invited quite a lot to be honest.
Both mage, shaman and hunter are currently good.
Not in your scenario.
Why would you?
A fury warrior does 5x more dmg? Invite 15 fury warriors and bring drums.
Why bother with a mage/evoker/shammy if they do less damage and bring no buffs?
It’s not about “current”.
We are talking about your no-buff scenario.
Without bloodlust, have fun being invited as , let’s say Elemental shaman.
So is DH, one of the best specs in the game right now for melee, and yet if we looked at you, you would think is pretty bad, but I don’t think its the spec I’m Leaning towards it being a you issue, get good, or uninstall boy.
But there is no situation where fury warrior will do 5 times the damage so it’s pointless to make an example like that.
Oh yea, if dh did 1000 times more damage everyone would invite only dh, yea but that’s not how it actually is right?
Anyway, the only way to make group buffs is redundancy. Just like how it is for lust.
Basically a way to get the buff even if at slightly reduced effectiveness.
Maybe it’s not like that in the +6 keys you are running, but on higher end content everyone wants the best.
Why wouldn’t it?
We all know balance doesn’t exist.
There will always be a #1 class.
Invite that #1 class and bring drums.
Boem, all BL classes are now redundant and left out.
This dude can’t see the forest because of the trees.