Hello all. I need advice. Im guardian druid and you can see my ilvl and rio. Am i wrong, or our dmg is worst than all tank specs ? I do around 2.5 to 2-7 k dps and i dont think this is enough to push high keys. When i join m+ groups with dps, other tanks like paladin or monk do like 3k + to 4 k dps which is much more higher than mine. Can you tell me, am i wrong and i don`t do something right, or druid tank is just weak. Next problem is that, no one takes me after +14. Hour after hour, everyone decline me for +15. My rio is not that low, same as my ilvl…
Personally i think Gdruid is an amazing tank, it might not be able to dish out as much dmg as DH does but still it has a CR and a pretty phat toolkit.
Your problem is not the state of your spec but the perception of the puglords that always have to demand the absolute meta to push keys, either if its tank or dps or even healers.
Your damage 2.5 to 2.7 is pretty good for the keys you describe.
Once you fix your ilvl + increase your RIO abit you are not going to have problems.
I dont know what happened in SL, as i was farming 15’s while already had KSM ive seen several groups description: IM NOT BOOSTING YOUR KSM HAVE IT COMPLETED IN 15. While the key was 15 
Im around 1360 rio and 223ilvl on shadow, i still get declined even in 14’s. Even in 10-13.
The best thing you can do it push your own key, if you dont have a metaspec in shadowlands its nearly impossible to push with the mentality of the puglords.
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Well, our dmg outside of Incarnate (or Starfall from Convoke) is really meh - during these two buffs, its insane … kinda funny tho. But, at higher ratings, its not that bad… I´ve got about 3k-4k dps in M18 ± (You need big pulls for it, thats why. But, Guardians are insane defensive powerhouses, so you can deal with it).
The problem guardian has, is AoE Burst agro - this is insane, if you dont have hunter or rogue in party … Just waiting for DH/Mage … to proc everything on pack/doublepack … gg 
.
And 15% buff to our Mangle and Swipe (Not Thrash! It would broke the game completely, because its directly tied with our self-sustain) would solve everything.
And last thing, Guardian has the lowest Overall dmg from all tanks (lower than BDK), but your capabilities are … just insane … You can facetank fortify packs in M20 w/o kiting … No one is getting closer to this. VDH would just explode w/o Meta, he needs to kite, BDK - just rofl (sorry boys, w/o cds, you would die at pull ), Prot Paladin - this is sad, no def. value, big dmg - but its worthless w/o little survival, Brew is balanced between dmg/def, Prot Warrior has better dmg than us (sometimes about 30% overall, lulz), fixes to SB leggo made them insane at def, but they lacks self-healing, but they are second only to Guardians.
Overall, I think, that Guardians are second to none. The problem is only kiting and overall dmg at higher M+, thats why everyone needs VDH. W/O kiting meta, Guardians would stonks easily
Just keep practicing with better/bigger pulls with Incarnate (or Convoke - owlweaving for Starfall proc, if you are NF), dont forget Sunfire at the pull - it will help a lot (again, owlweaving), coordinate with your healer if possible and you will be demigod at M10-M15 with 220± ilvl.
To give you some picture, I dont need healer (90% is self-sustain/healing) at M2-M14. 
The only non-DH tank in the top #20 timed keys is a guardian druid. Just saying.
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As I said, w/o kiting meta, Guardian would be king easily with Warrior on second place.
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Thanks for answers. Maybe i have to change tank spec, because no one takes me with hours. Only way is to push my own keys …
Well, rio is everything (which is really sad …) at these times. At M2-15+ , Guardian is safer choice, not VDH (As I said before, VDHs are needed for big chain pulls with kiting at 18+ otherwise, they are worse than Guardians). With Guardians, no spike dmg, predictable selfheal etc etc - but, lower overall dmg and kiting (not needed at those mid M+).
You just need rio and gear at least with 205ilvl. And you are good to go
EDIT : I just checked your gear. Bro, you only need to increase your rio - I know, its bad and slow, but there is no other choice. And dont forget, your overall dmg will be a lot better, if you run M+s with at least mid-skilled peoples .
If you wont wipe and go steady through the M+ with some speed, your overall dmg/dps won´t decay that much - We deal the most of our dmg through our big bad Incarnate Pulls and Sunfire(uncapped AoE)/Starfall(Owlweaving convoke).
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Well. Week after last post, 0 progress. Without premade group, no one wants guardian druid for tank. Being declined hour after hour…To +14 people take all tank specs, but after that everything changes… How can i improve my rating and do KSM achievement, when no one takes me… There is no point to continue my sub if i want to play guardian…
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Sad as it is, Pug world still takes the meta even if the tanks are better for specific places than others. Playing Guardian and VDH/HDH myself, it’s much easier to be in a space of premades or in a community.
Can be hard to find one, but honestly a network or community will help you out in the long run of enjoying M+ and the KSM goal than struggling week by week with the hopes a pug group will not stick to the meta and invite someone regardless.
(Heck, with the surge of meta, even the meta classes will struggle to get into groups. Because there’s so much… meta.)
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Guardian DROODS are bassicly like holy priest last expansion
Is really gud, BUT MUH DEEEPS
Guardian is a very solid tank and I haven’t any problems to get an invite for m+15/16, but if you want to push higher keys you need either good connections or have to reroll to VDH.
I think my DPS isn’t bad, but I know that certain tank classes can do it better.
Nah Druid does fine damage, its not as flashy at Demon Hunters AoE or Paladins single target but it does have quite good burst AoE on command and single target wise its 2nd to just Paladin. Not to mention it is by far the most robust tank out there.
Your problems has less with Guardians actual performance to do and more with the fact that the mentality of alot of players are highly rio based and meta based. If a DH applies for a key and you with similair RIO the average group will go with the DH etc.
And for a tank especielly its really important its a good tank, a bad tank can fast screw up a key while a good tank can carry even semi bad damage quite well especielly on keys like +15 that by now is fairly easy.
Just keep playing raise your RIO gear up and learn your spec better and better and you will get groups, but getting declined from keys especielly when playing a non meta tank is something you need to get used too because that will always happen. even MDI players get decline every now and than on alts.
I can understand your frustration. (Yeah, I can’t empathise with it, and I tend to run with premades in any case, but I can understand it.) But what’s wrong with running your own keys? You get to make the group that way - pick the healer class you like to work with, your preferred composition of dps specs, specific covenants and utilities to suit the dungeons you’re running and the week’s affixes. The only downside to running your own key is that it’s your key that gets depleted if someone leaves, but that’s no different than not running your key at all.
Guardian is one of the best tanks in the game. Both for PvE and for PvP.
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I am playing guardian
Amazing spec, almost 90 percent acceptance to invites
As Guardian and when defending flags in rated BGs, the enemy usually just retreats when I pop out of stealth. Guardian is incredible right now.
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I have a guardian and vdh about the same item level. VDH does 30-50% more damage over the course of a dungeon, guardians can face tank longer but can’t kite as well. I think if their damage was boosted they would be in a better place, but when the going gets tough and all tanks need to kite the VDH is always going to be a better pick. It’s quite possible with 9.1 that they will be in a better place, but who knows.
There is a shortage of tanks…
Any despair group will pick any tank…
so play that which u like!
I have this warrior and im playing both fury and prot. I love to bring a bear tank, it feels safe. U say ure not getting picked for 15’s reason can be the keyholder dont trust you. They do one 15 key pr week and dont have time to have the key depleted because of a weak tank (not saying ure weak) push ure own key. I have the same problem on warrior
Hai, I’m sad to hear nobody wants you.
I play guardian myself, initially reroling DK -> VDH -> Guardian druid since Expansion Launch.
In higher keys you’ll find people will want Guardian or VDH, nothing else - and to me it feels like a 50/50 split - depending on what covenant they need.
Advantages of guardian is the gigantic pulls you can do without needing a healer even.
I might do 500-700 dps less, than a VDH, but with the net damage gained by not moving mobs out of firemages flamepatch durring incarn, it will easily be the same or better (group wise) (Firemages loves bear tanks for this reason).
You just need to play around your Incarn AND manage our group’s cooldowns. If Incarn is up, and mage has combust, dk has apocalypse - you pull GIGA. Just use Incarn and make a Ironfur+Trash macro 
(I can reccomend the addon Exorsus Raidtools, you can click what cooldowns you want to track).
You should work a bit on your gear tho, get more versa/haste pieces,
- play with blood-frenzy talent
- Run Balance afinity talent
- Run Heart of the wild talent
- Use Confoke Conduit
- Use hart of the Barksin + Heart of the Wild + Convoke on prides (called ownweaving)
(with heart of the wild, you can do giga heals out of any form, or giga singletarget nuke (in owlkin form).
Just a few tips.
That said - pushing keys is a numbers game, its not easy.
You just sign up for all 16’s you haven’t done, its all about experience.
I can also reccomend trying to find 1 dps and 1 healer to queue and push with.
Guardian is a bit low on threat, I can reccomend at least running 1 rogue and/or 1 hunter.
My preferred setup is, Hunter (for misdirect), Mage (Uncapped AoE), Balance Druid (Trees) and Resto Shaman (for interupts) or Kyrian Paladin (BoP + Sacrefice)
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