You want to do more than 2500 Rio though?
Everyone is always checking the high endgame content like mythic raiding or 20> keys and start whining . In reality who from all of us is gonna do all that (mythic raiding and mythics above 20)? There will always be a meta for extreme endgame but it doesn’t matter in reality in the more “casual” game.
Some sjws are here talking about guardians without even playing them. I’m playing since start of expansion. Go play guardian in a damn 12 - 15 keys and get destroyed or maybe you love getting destroyed in dungeons I respect that opinion of yours. I DONT like that. Guardian talent tree is a joke, now with 10.0.5 its more of a joke. On start of every pull the incoming damage is insane, every tank has reliable absorb or magic damage reduction mechanic except druid who only have cds to deal with magic damage. Single target dps sucks, aoe dps is good if you go talent for laser bear, if you go for survivability then you will deal so low damage. Frenzied regeneration heals you very little, and you have to TAKE the damage to use self heal if you DONT DIE. FR is on GCD which is another problem. If guardian was OK, why the hell they are changing it a lot? And believe me they will change guardian more. Now expansion is out for more than 2 months, is it acceptable for a loved spec to be in a terrible condition while other tanks are rocking? As a guardian druid you never get invited. You dont play it. Thanks blizz. End of story.
You’re highly overdramatic here. I’m tanking 15-17s, my healers more often than not tell me they need to pay less attention to me than to the dps, so I assume that means we aren’t made from paper.
I’m not stating there aren’t points that could be improved on, but it isn’t all as gloomy as people state. We might not have a dedicated magic DR, but we have quite a few options to reduce all dmg through our talents. Can get a passive 9% reduction in the general tree, there’s a thrash talent that can give 6% passive, moonfire talent giving 10% passive reduction, then many talents improving Barkskin, 2 stacks of survival instincts, rage of the sleeper and pulverize, all can reduce magical dmg intake. Concidering the many options and short cooldowns, you do have ways to rotate them at hairy points during combat. We also have passive healing through Elune’s Favored and after the Wildfire, two stacks of Frenzied Regeneration possible that can heal 1/3rd or so of your hp on a relative short cooldown (no idea why this should be off the GCD to be useful, that’s what DR cooldowns are already for). And then you can also get some Absorption with Earthwarden (or DR, recount always counted it as an absorb mechanic) and Ursoc’s Fury. Pseudo Defensive is also Convoke, which usually gives you a few stacks of Iron Fur and a random Pulverize.
And then I haven’t even pointed out Incarnation.
And when things get really dangerous you also have Typhoon and Ursol’s to start kiting. If all of that is not enough, there are four other people in the group that all have their own ways to help out. You don’t have to be a one-man army to clear content, that’s why it’s called groupcontent 
.
Disclaimer: I am fully aware you can’t/won’t pick up all of these talents, but you can pick up many of them without gimping your DPS too hard.
Are you the one who designed our joke talent tree? DKs have purgatory (a god-damn cheat death) while we have a talent gives 20k heal on the same place where you have to spend everything to reach it LMAO. You explain all of our talents like noone knows them, the problem is you cant make a competing build with those talents against other tanks and obviously you cant take all of them. Either you lose damage or survivability while other tanks doesnt lose anything. If you are taking thrash talent that gives %6 damage reduction on 3 stacks, then you are leaving a lot of important talents behind and that %6 damage reduction needs 15 seconds to build because of thrash cd but whatever why am i even explaining it? Yeah dude guardian is fine thats why they change it time to time for fun. 2 months and guardian is not even stable. You say you are tanking 15-17s, I’m checking your rio and seeing you completed in time a sbg +17 well done. SBG is a dungeon where warriors and dks tank naked. Perfect guardian player good job, no need to worry as guardians when we have you.
Honestly I think bear is likely not the best but still not horrible, you have a lot of extra utility that others dont, especially when off tanking.
We are also about to have another talent rework to give us even more self sustain.
Depending on the build we’re going to have.
Lunar Beam - Large aoe damage, large self healing and self healing off the damage with Elunes Favored.
Rage of the sleeper - 25% DR & 25% Leech
Scantilating Moonlight - 10% DR on every target with Moonfire
Reinforced Fur - 25% DR on Barksin Or you go Tooth and Claw for a 15% DR on a proc.
Earth Warden -30% DR on auto attacks
The talent tree rework doesnt seem like much but I imagine depending on how you play it we should have some pretty good DR against any burst damage for either magical or physical while dealing some really strong AOE damage.
Lunar beam currently damages the bear and heals mobs. :>
EW isn’t worth the points where it will be for most content.
RF isn’t usually taken due to position, being a lacklustre talent and competition.
TnC doesn’t affect magic damage despite the tooltip stating otherwise.
New tree also makes RotS much harder to get if you want to roll with Raze, which is also bugged.
Not to mention countless interactions between Raze and other talents. Truth of the matter is nobody knows how bear will be because nothing can be tested due to huge bugged interactions.
Bear does have ok utility, but with simple proc DR not even working as intended (I hope) it’s in a pretty questionable position going in to 10.05 effectively blind.
SJWs? What does playing guardian (or not) have to do with intersectional feminism? LOL
Just found the 10.0.5 tree on Wowhead, notice the CD reduction of thrash and Mangle in the 1st Berserk node is no longer 100% CD reduction, now a 50%… so for now… i cant imagine spec’ing into Incarnation… spammng thrash every 3s wont be worthwhile. It will be interesting to see how the builds change now… im extremely dissapointed to be honest. Incarnation was what attracted me to bear back in Legion.
Ive had 0 issues getting into groups or surviving. I can tank without much hassle rly and if i die, its because im not pressing the correct mitigation or failing something else. All this whining would be alright if u were playing 20-23s where its more of a matter that going naked into a pull can be dangerous(no ironfur etc). Ive never felt troubled except maybe 2nd boss on ruby this week at a 16+ with an uncoordinated team.
Its a player issue more then a few talents. Stop being metaslaves just because warriors are stronger atm.
Bear is viable for sure but compared to other tanks the only thing they do well atm is decent damage. Big pulls with Incarnation felt good but for some reason Blizzard just decided to nerf the cooldown reduction from berserk by 50%, so Thrash spam is no longer a thing. Redesigning the whole tree and somehow making the least popular tank even worse… Trying to understand why, but the only reason I can think of is they don’t have any devs atm who actually plays Guardian and they are just fumbling around without any clear idea of which direction they need to go.
Bear wasn’t great before the incoming patch, but overall I thought it was decent except the weakness vs magic damage and few bloated talent nodes. A full overhaul seemed pointless
The fact that bear went live with almost every new talent bugged and the huge bloat in the t3 speaks volumes. We’re literally stuck with one build that’s almost identical to what we ran before but with less damage and a nerfed incarn. I’d prefer to have the original tree back.
Exactly. All this work put in only to make Guardian worse…
Couldn’t agree more. Completely redundant to rework a spec if you’re just creating less flexibility, introducing more bugs and dead abilities, and ultimately not changing the end result in any positive way.
Lol, for real? That is a stupidly funny bug…
Berserk is an incredibly weak ability (3 mins cd, 15 sec duration) and it takes 3 nodes, and gated all the useful talents. The 3 berserk talent combined together is weaker than Rage of the sleeper (1min cd, 10 sec duration, +25%/25%/15%)
Berserk is so bad and the tree pathing is awful.
Logged in only to confirm how much they gutted Guardian. Not being able to spam Thrash with Incarnation anymore feels horrible, and both builds are weaker than before. Just glad that Guardian is not my main, and I leveled other tanks as well. The basically killed the entire spec for me because druid devs just seems to do random things that makes no sense, and zero blueposts about their thought process behind it. I will not be playing my druid until they fix this trainwreck of a spec tree.
Developers must be real trolls when they decided to make these changes.
I don’t think even Blizzard can post empty posts, that’s probably why.
I’m giving up on providing feedback. Didn’t even need to play the PTR to realize that some of the changes were completely idiotic, not just because of poor number scaling, but conceptually. Not that I could provide proper proof of how bad it is because nothing ever worked to begin with.
Today I’ve leveled up a Warrior and it’s just ridiculous how mechanically superior it feels in comparison to Druids. As if topping all the charts isn’t enough, there’s a plethora of transmog options for you to better enjoy playing your character. Bear is lacking in every department, why play it at all?
Better absorb (the best form of mitigation after DR%), better crowd control, better mobility and a ton of useful stuff from the general tree for all playstyles, both for PVE and PVP which in the case of Druid you don’t even get to utilize because cancelling shapeshift with 20 mobs hitting you isn’t an option.
Due to %HP modifier being attached to the form and not being passive, it’s not very smart to start casting spells in PVP because it leads to getting stunlocked and dying in 2 seconds. Literally 80% of the general talent tree consists of empty points that offer bonuses you don’t need and the other 20% are passive buffs, armor or output otherwise.
Lets just admit it… We all knew it will come to this. Its been a downward spiral since BFA.
Not we got the killing blow.
Its time for the guardian druid to hibernate and go into the emerald dream. See ya old pal, hope you wake up before the expansion is over. 