Well PL was a problem because you couldn’t trade if it was a ilvl upgrade even if it was downgrade for your character.
But anyaway how rampant is selling items actually? Like I said I don’t raid much these days but I do pug a few raids now and again and I have never seen this.
They changed that quite a while ago. Any raid loot is tradeable regardless of what you are wearing.
It’s pretty bad, had someone whisper me the other day trying to sell a ring from lfr because I was wearing a green one😂
It’s to the point where plenty people turned it around and actually whisper you with an offer when you win an item.
People asked me why I don’t involve myself in guild raiding too much except when I get invited by friends from some guilds.
Exactly for the reason the OP outlined.
You don’t want to get involved in guild raiding because the guild will help you get gear?
What can i say. Find better people to play with.
no - cuz the guild will gear officer’s girlfriend stealing my gear?
Yeah guilds are like jobs.
“Sorry no money in the budget for anyone to get a payrise”
“So how did you get money for that new car? You also work at this dump.”
My manager dad taught me that “They pay one person tons to tell everyone else there is no money for a payrise because it’s cheaper.”
OP was a PuG in a semi guild run. The guild rolled for their paladin. If OP was in the guild they could have rolled for him. Go be in a guild with your friends and stop being misserable.
Honestly I do not think there is a perfect loot system. Everything will have a flaw of sorts.
As far as pugging goes, honestly they need to go back to forced personal for any groups with any less than 100% guild members in it.
I agree that everyone had a chance to roll, but I also know that the system can still be manipulated (as I’m not aware of any fixes to it yet) and people rolling need simply because they can is completely and utterly against the spirit of a mass multiplayer with community aspects.
I do more than some 667 geared players and lose a roll, I do less than some players who are less geared than me (but have bis items) and I lose.
I lose rolls to people who have bis at a higher level, who simply want it as part of a collection.
And this is before I even get onto guilds. My own guild we truly were fair and even, and people moaned when an officer got 1 item out of 20 boss kills (lol) and then to go to guilds that gave things based on who simmed highest regardless of if it was any good for them or if they even wanted it (unless a friend or girlfriend needed it then it was theirs).
Sadly as is with real life, people in game are completely self centred, self serving and unable to see beyond themselves and then complain when others hold them back.
So actually despite me being an advocate for group & master loot in the past, I’d argue it is time personal loot ought to be forced even in guilds again, as a good portion of the community have demonstrated they simply cannot be trusted to act reasonable.
It happens to me today he rolled cloak and he already has better and won. Ofc he rolled for his friend and it is not OK! Bring back PL and roll system is frustrating! Dont listen to RWF players coz they complained about loot, one of them I dont want to name. Roll system needs go away so bring back PL! Time to wake up, please!
Thank you!
I’d say go pl for lfr ( not cause it would change anything but because people would be quite in the forums for two days)
And let organised groups decide themselves. No one forces you to join a group that does not use pl.
Group loot only for 100% guild groups would suck cause then you could not randomly bring a friend or bring a backup player without screwing the loot system. Or like my guild we always had a partner guild for raiding
It was not “changed”. It is a feature of personal loot, which was changed when personal loot was removed.
Personal loot and gear trading restrictions go hand in hand.
So it was changed. Also besides the point, point was that there are no trading restrictions.
And I don’t see any reason why PL and restrictions should go hand in hand. When/if PL comes back I doubt they will suddenly put back the restrictions.
If you read all of what I wrote you would see I would argue that PL even for full guild groups might be better.
Up until the introduction of infinite combinations of bis setup ML and GL worked fine. But certainly as from Legion onwards where gear from raid, or M+ etc has meant your BIS equipped is an ever moving goal post it has been nothing but a right royal mess.
But again thats just one individuals opinion.
With PL the exact same thing would have happened. GL you choose to roll on items and everyone can see the rolls, with PL everyone automatically rolls and the items gets generated for the people that rolled highest. So in your case that guy would have again rolled highest the item would have generated for him and he would have given it to his friend.
M+ is pretty much PL and it still has trading restrictions. For some reason Blizzard refuse to unbind it.
Which is perfectly fine.
But the current situation simply feels bad, and when you see people with better or in many cases BIS items equipped at higher ilvl and then rolling and winning, people feel cheated. Because a HUMAN decided they would roll for something they were never going to use.
Take the human choice/ability to choose out of it, and it lessens the pain while creating more of an illusion of fairness.
Fair point. Also utter rubbish that those restrictions are still in place but well, what can we do.
No my point was just that you cannot have a discussion about PL vs group loot, without also accounting for the trading restrictions, mainly because blizz will never have the game with PL without trading restrictions.
They ALWAYS go hand in hand because they let you “choose” what items the boss drops. What that means is that you can with almost certainty guarantee specific drops from bosses. Blizzard does not want you to also be able to “funnel” that gear to specific people so that you can be done with the game in a single reset.
Imagine a world with personal loot that people can just trade everything.
Best gearing method:
Buy a boost/get helpers to a raid that 20-30 people share loot with the one getting boosted.
No need for those people to have higher ilvl, just be geared enough and able to clear the raid.
Congrats, with every boss dropping 6 pieces of loot, you are almost guaranteed to get every available items for that person.
You see how blizzard would want to AVOID that system like the plague.
It got me thinking though. I don’t think the item selling is happening because of GL. Like I said people were already rolling on everything. I think it’s happening due to the trading restrictions being gone.