TBF it started when blizzard made it possible for you to trade gold between servers.
Before that it was rare enough for people from the same server to roll on the item that it never caught traction.
As soon as it was possible to trade gold across realms, it became the norm that “ok we can sell the items we get”.
Selling would happen under either system but I definitely preferred PL for getting two loot items per clear. As opposed to now when I mostly don’t get anything.
Guild raids are obviously different we have a loot council and they dish the stuff out fairly.
The people selling loot in lfr are typically not ones said loot are upgrades for though, so they would be able to trade it regardless.
Actually you are 100% right. I never connected the 2 before now.
2 per clear? I usually got 0 with PL but with the added bonus of “do you need” - >“No but can’t trade”. Now with GL I still get 0 but I pass on most things because they arent upgrades and I just lose the rolls on the stuff I do need.
NO! It is ok to get random loot and trade. It is not OK when you roll any item you already have better. It is difference! PL is 100 times better than roll!
under PL, my runs could be hit and miss. Sometimes I got 2, sometimes 0 and others half way.
But what you said right there look
Now with GL I still get 0 but I pass on most things because they arent upgrades and I just lose the rolls on the stuff I do need.
This right here is the reason more and more people are saying screw this if it has a need button imma use it regardless if I need it or not.
Because they feel like they are fighting a losing battle and if you cannot beat it, you may aswell join it.
Well its not technically ninjaing or stealing at all. If you pug then pretty much everyone rolls need on anything which they can roll. Heck, I could roll need on a transmog item in LFR while wearing a myth or hero piece in that slot.
Sure, we can argue the “ethics” of this if you like but as long as Blizzard allows it, people will do it.
Yes, but thats what I don’t get. Before you rolling against all members of your raid each time, now you are rolling against the the people that can use the item. The odds are better for you now. The key difference is that you didn’t know you were actually rolling.
That’s the problem though your not just rolling against those that can use it.
As an example you killed Rik reverb on mythic and got the mythic radio before you ever got the heroic one.
You CAN roll need on the heroic one still. Why, because you’ve never had it specifically. Do you need it ? No.
Likewise you can be 669 geared and well above anything that heroic has to offer, but at the same time you could still roll on most of heroic loot because reasons X Y Z.
And this is before we consider you can cheat the system.
For example as the OP mentioned, If I rolled for the Rik Radio for a guildy, and won, but then traded it. Next time I can roll again, and again and again. The rest I don’t want to go into because I don’t care to share how to effectively cheat. But in what way are these helpful ?
Now I know in PL the game could give you the same trinket over and over and over and over, but that would be the game being annoying instead of a person doing it intentionally and others joining suit.
I’m pretty sure you cannot need on an item if you have the exact same one but on a higher track. At least thats what Blizzard wrote on their patch notes when they returned to GL. So unless they changed it, it should still be the case.
I am hoping I am wrong, but I’m pretty certain I was able to roll need on Normal Tier items despite having Heroic tier (all 5). Perhaps what you are saying applies to rings, necks and trinkets only, as everything else has different appearances which would give that loophole.
But still, the community (just as people in real life) are more self centred and selfish now and it shows no signs of slowing or changing. Sometimes you have to take the choice away in order to help people help themselves.
Yes average was two per clear per char. I used to be able to actually farm tmog sets that way. Now I can only do it with vault and catalyst.
I just don’t get loot in LFR or pugs.
All of this would be fixed by rolling Need = Item is now Soulbound and cannot be traded.
That’s literally all that Blizzard has to do.
If you already have the same item, you can only roll need if it’s an upgrade (higher ilvl, higher upgrade track or has a tertiary proc).
Your feeling is off. I’ve already in an earlier post mentioned what I said to the RL, who also happened to be the one needing an item he/she didn’t need. Nothing more nothing less.
So, you’re actually just salty because you have no friends rolling on your loot. Others would call what your “ninja looters” are doing what an actually social MMO is supposed to be - friends helping each other out. It’s really just a matter of perspective. Yeah, as the solo player it sucks, not gonna deny that, but “it’s an MMO”. It’s the same as ppl rolling need on low level items in LFR - they were there, helped killing the bosses, they have the same right to roll need on items as everybody else and do with them as they please.
What are you american?
Not salty, you would have seen that if you read the thread instead of hammering your keyboard after reading my opening sentence.
To be kind, I am explaining what can be extracted from this thread: my experience of the loot system has drastically changed for the worse. My opinion is that if it is no upgrade in any sense for you, you do not press need. This is my experience, across several realms and both factions, through almost 3 expansions. It may differ from yours or anybody elses.
I never had the need of having my mates joining the same pug as me to increase my chances for loot.
I may be old, or still living in the past regarding World of Warcraft, but helping your mates out never included multiplying your chances - we’d run the dungeons or raids on reset, time after time - if we really wanted to maximize our chances, we formed the group or raid and made sure it was a low amount of needers for the item (trip down the memory lane, ran VH in WotLK probably for a month to get the hit rating trinket only to be replaced the same night when running Naxx for the first time).
So just because you have your online-squad, I still do belive that it should not make it easier for you to actually get the loot (more than that they might join your group).
The old saying “If you can’t beat them, join them” is what I am going to apply. I am going to need all stuff I can need. And sell it directly. And feel bad that I might be vendoring someones upgrade. Because that’s what it has become.
the reddit is actually a very good idea 
technicaly it cant be ninja - you rolled - you lost roll - better luck next time.