So drums are still mandatory, brings toxicity to raiding scene as people will rage if they aren’t put in a group with 4 other Leatherworkers…
Just give it a 2 min CD, very simple solution therefore, only 1 Leatherworker is required per 5 man.
This 8 yard is even more toxic, requiring people to sacrifice mechanical positioning to gain Drums buff and if people miss it by 1 yard, people will be toxic to each other.
Just silly amounts of effort for something you can fix like you did in 3.0
You literally dont understand why ppl are upset with drums in the first place. If anything is a DPS increase, just 1-2% for a whole raid, then it will be a META and thereby be required for 90% of guilds. This exact reason, was what you wanted to fix but failed(so far). You still have time to fix it though.
The fact that Leatherworking was unactractive had little to do with drums but everything to do with the amount of classes that could really benefit from the crafted items, and the effort they had to make compared to other available professions. Leveling leatherworking was way to expensive for the items to be worth it. Drums beeing tied to leatherworking profession made that even worse. Instead of doing the sensible think and not have drums require leatherworking to be used, in 2.3 you made drums so overpowered that everyone wants to use them.
If an class, spec, or item is used by everyone, then that part is broken! 2.3 drums are broken and should not be in the game!
I agree, it should feel worthwhile to be an LW. Maybe reassess if the items that provide a personal gain to the LW can be made LW-only? Perhaps same mechanism for high-end leg enchants as there is for the ring enchants.
As to the drums, out of the options listed:
Please enlighten us how you plan on doing this. I certainly hope not that your going to have to have random players raid? Thats not testing because they won’t have the serious attitute that tbc meta’s will have. You will have to entice a world first contester to test this out with their guild. Since were talking post phase 3, 2 good fights to simulate this on would be Muru and the council.
Also do you realize what the community wants?
WE DO NOT WANT LEATHERWORKING TO FEEL MANDATORY
WE DO NOT WANT A ITEM TO BE SO POWERFULL THAT YOU GIVE UP AN ENTIRE PROFESSION JUST FOR THAT ITEM.
Your proposed changes does NOTHING to address the concerns of the community.
Stop thinking of alternative solutions and just give us the WOTLK version of drums!
Okay, if you read the forums carefully, please, don’t ignore what the whole playerbase try to tell you: don’t improve drums but nerf them. It’s not right way when drums should be felt like something mandatory. Min-maxers are utilizing any boost which would improve their DPS and efficiency, so the rest of community could view it in the same way, like they must be LW and bring drums to every raid or they are not considered for good player. It splits the community, not connect them. Sort of debuff or nerf could very easily change it, why to think about something what is clear? You responded, so you are reading these forums. So please, read it more carefully and don’t go against the community. We know you can do good changes (seals, pre-nerfed bosses while stile being on patch 2.4.3.), so keep your work to do good changes. Don’t ruin it by something what community doesn’t want to.
Guys, stop dodgin the problem here - WHY dont you just remove LW requirement for using Drums OR make their effect raidwide so every raid in SW would only need 4 LW instead of 20?
Its the simple solution that will fix everything wrong with Drums. What you say in the blue post is DODGING the point by trying to talk about some unimportant side stuff. Stop being a dodgy snakes, plz, its very noticable and make you look bad.
Hello everybody
Back in the day I was very active in the professions forum. Yes, Professions have always been one of my personal favorite aspects of the game and, I still put a lot of effort in this and take out much enjoyment.
I must say that I was very happy when the announcement came that Drums would be nerfed. I knew that having to reroll LW on my main would be a very bad thing and, to be honest, I’m not sure if I’ll do it or forfeit raiding all together.
Blizzard’s answer to this issue has been so out of touch that’s borderline autistic. We’ve all seen the world buffs issue locking us out of our chars for days, we’ve all seen people not being able to log on their main because they got Darkmoon Fair buff just before it ended and are saving that buff for the next raid days away.
On our first run, self-locking our main char for days because of a buff was unthinkable, now it’s standard practice and those that don’t don’t get a raid spot or are looked down upon. Arguing that it shouldn’t it’s like arguing that kale should taste good.
Your proposed solution does absolutely nothing to address the issue of every non leatherworker being frowned upon. All it does is to make the drums more frustrating, more of an hassle, even worst to use. It’s like if you had put a “solution” for the world buffs issue to make the Zandalar island’s floor lava where we would be taking damage while waiting for the buff.
I really hope this idea never sees the light of day. It’s a bad one and it does absolutely nothing to address the real issue, it just punishes the players more and, for the record, I would much more rather take 2-3 extra resets before I could clear a raid than being forced to rerol a specific profession.
I didn’t notice I was using one of my alts. For the record, now posting with my main!
Your inability to listen to the community is astounding, both in retail and classic. These forums, the Wowhead comment section, Reddit, all full of people telling you why your thinking is wrong and not what they want.
Drums of Battle were a meaningful part of the raiding experience in 2008.
So this means either two things. One is that the playerbase at the time actually enjoyed having to give up a profession slot for leatherworking and farming the drum materials, all to push one button in a rotation on every fight.
The second is that it’s intended by Blizzard for players to do this to clear bosses, in which case Blizzard are making a terrible game with de-facto mandatory professions because they don’t want to balance the raid.
Changes to how Drums work in this later phase of Burning Crusade Classic would make Sunwell Plateau harder or easier than it was in 2008. That would compel us to do raid tuning, which goes against our goal of establishing as much authenticity as possible.
Any attempt you had at making an “authentic” experience went out the window the instant you allowed botting and gold buying to run rampant and ruin the economy in classic, let alone your hawking of paid boosts and a mount in the game files that will cost real life money to acquire. So it’s just a little bit disingenuous for Blizzard to be willing to compromise in authenticity in those areas but not in this.
If there’s one lesson to be learned from Classic, people don’t want a 100% authentic recreation, they want a fun one that stays true to the spirit of the original. Nobody has fond memories of giving up a profession slot just for drums, I promise you.
The importance of professions in The Burning Crusade is part of the fabric of The Burning Crusade. While today the focus is on Leatherworking, we know that many casters will feel the need to pursue Tailoring, and PvP-focused warriors will feel that Blacksmithing is vital, and so forth. The changes made in the original Patch 2.3 were aimed specifically at bolstering the value of Leatherworking relative to those other professions.
Yes because high quality armour and weapons coming from professions is cool and good for an MMO, players should have choices in how they develop their character and rewards and bonuses for those choices. Which makes it even worse that the meta will still be as many leatherworkers as possible. Adding the Tinnitus debuff, any player who chooses LW has a bonus in raids to make the profession worthwhile, except now that player isn’t dependent on his entire group also taking LW.
I’m so amazed how you guys constantly miss the mark.
I mean it’s simple, “gameplay first” and then “authenticity” as you said “some changes”.
My point here, is : this change you propose achieves nothing. It’s making things worse just to respect authenticity.
The guys that developed TBC were good, but made some mistakes that badly impacted the game. We back then looked over them because it was in the big picture an incredible experience.
Today you have unique chance to improve a game that has almost no flaws and make it perfect.
Yes people are gonna get the profession that is the best and yes it’s gonna impact how they perform. HOWEVER it wont change their raid gameplay to the point where they have to pack themselves up all the time !!!
Im tired of you Blizz really. Exploiting fanbase’s love for the franchise and constantly F****ing up everything. I get it : “money money!!! LVL BOOOOST” but come on, this one doesnt even matter financially and you still doing it wrong.
I read somewhere (wowhead i think) some guy saying you guys were “apes trying to build a pc”.
Guess what? That’s the simplest explanation to all the sh*t you put us through.
And by the way what i would do is remove the item all together. And if i cant remove it i would leave it 40 radius and raid have tinnitus
This entire post makes me think that Blizzard is operating under a completely wrong assumption and misunderstands the Classic meta entirely.
Drums 100% won’t be necessary to clear any encounter in Classic TBC, no matter how ‘pre-nerf’ it is. Gaming and access to information just has advanced too much for these relatively simple encounters to still be such an issue.
The problem with drums is the same as the one with world buffs in Classic. They make you better so people will collect them/‘require’ LW. While this doesn’t create the same toxic environment that world buffs do, it will still pigeonhole the majority of people into a profession that will otherwise not benefit them and that they would otherwise never consider getting.
Blizzard said during Blizzcon that they want to proactively curb this development so these blue posts justifying making the entire thing objectively worse is just bizarre.
Please stop thinking of drums as “required” to clear raids and instead as “necessary” by player/guild/meta mandate.
If you think of them as the former then you don’t need to make any changes to drums because everyone will get them anyway and once you start thinking of them as the latter then you should just add one of the changes that people suggested in the past, like making them not require LW anymore or making them raid wide and adding a tinnitus debuff. Making encounters slightly harder will only benefit the game’s longevity, especially since wipe sessions are no longer as prohibitively expensive in TBC as they are in Classic with the way consumes work.
Blizzard is evil? WHAT? Unheard of, absolutely insane
Frist of all thank you for explaining the motivation behind the changes in details, but it looks like you completely do not understand the problem with the drums.
Most of us do not mind the “requirement” of the drums to clear the raids, what we DO MIND is the min-maxer mindset that forces everyone to chose leatherworking over other professions for a single piece of item. And we want YOU to PREVENT this.
are you sure? i imagine farming the specific leathers which btw have a reasonable low drop rate and are only in certain area will become very toxic very fast
It will be a good thing if sunwell bosses will be slightly harder due to Tinnitus debuff from drums.
ADD TINNITUS DEBUFF AND/OR MAKE DRUMS RAIDWIDE!
Its so easy to understand the problem with the Drums, that any presumption that Blizzard “didnt get it” or “missed the point” is impossible.
No, they clearly understand the problem (which was also confirmed during Blizzcon), but INTENTIONALLY decided to make it worse.
They didnt back off under the backlash and instead continued to evade the point by making claims about “authenticity” (seriously, Blizzard, this is getting old and ridiculously bad) and raid being designed for Drums meta (What? Dont wait for people to believe this nonsense).
The question is WHY they decided to INTENTIONALLY double down on Drums. I guess this all somehow leads to Boosting and bots, i.e. more greed on Blizzard part.
Which is so mindboggling, that it made me want to simply quit the WoW and give them not a single penny.
They only change they should probably do is reduce the cooldown of Druns to 30 sec. So only 1 player have to spam it. There will be only 5 players that has to have Leatherworking. You still spam it as it used to be and they dont have to tune the bosses.
We dont care about using the drums in raids for min maxing w/e. what we dont want is to have LW forced down our throats . I do not want to have LW on my tank, yet i will be forced to even if its pointless for my class.
Atleast JC or Ench i can make some money with. LW? that requires another alt for skinning, and in the remote case i want to raid on that alt, guess what, bye bye skinning Welcome LW.
Also, Jc and Ench you require someone in your raid to have it. and to RAID WITH IT. you also need an armorsmith , you need 3 different alchemist with the three specs as a guild. Yes you do need those for minmaxing and saving money here and there.
So please, make LW not mandatory. make the Greater drums raidwide. please.
All day…All server…farm clefthoofs…
a nightmare…
