Stacking crit seems to be a theme here plus so many modifiers for blade dance damage including a 50% mortal strike.
Ngl that sounds op as hell 
Cannot stay as it is currently.
From a PvP view, you can launch the hunt, fel barrage, elysian decree, unbound chaos, fel bombardment, soulrend, and ragefire to inflict over 2000% Attack power in 1GCD, almost every minute.
Not 1GCD but I very much get your point. Seems gratuitous at this point what theyâve given havoc in pvp.
Hmm it looks better then i expected it to looks like havoc will be getting a few more abilities and more. Have to wait and see what its like though.
Numbers are subject to change but the good things in my opinion are :
More buttons to press
The fact that sigils become available as Havoc
The choice between on demand burst or high sustain damage
The synergy around talents
Seems a good design from a gameplay point of vue.
I was hesitating about Woltk classic Rogue or Dragonflight DH but now I know 
that wonât be the problem in pvp cuz you will get CCd. the real problem is sigil of silence, if it stays as a 6 sec aoe silence then lol.
and misery. misery is useful as well.
you end up with more diverse CC than a rogue or mage lol
I donât think so, many multipliers are free to build, you just need immolation aura, when you pop elysian decree, enemy have 1 sec to react before the hunt, otherwise itâs already too late, and as you said yourself we got many more cc to make it easier.
Iâll share the build I am thinking about later
Numbers are very much subject to change i would say but tbh looks pretty good maybe to good i feel like there are alot of nerfs to come in not going to lie. There are more buttons to press and they seem like pretty strong buttons, looks like there is going to be a hell of a balancing act going on keeping those buttons worth pressing if nerfs are needed. Who knows i could be wrong we are getting rid of sinful brand which would/could be 25% or more of are damage so maybe nerfs not needed i would love alpha to try this out no way to know otherwise.
the thing holding you back will be your own GCD. yes you have a lot of tools, but you cannot use them all at once, which is plenty of time to react.
any cc applied to you either delays you or shuts you down. so yes it you will wreak havoc (christ sorry couldnât help myself) on noobs but good players will counter you well, and if you donât get all your stuff out in succession, youâre really not that scary
It looks very good for a first iteration, specially when you compare it to other specs like Feral.
Very very interested in trying out Restless Hunter, Ragefire, and the new Crit Build.
Demon Form is going to be brutal. Every Demonic Window you can get an Inner Demon and when you get out of it, you get a free Fel Rush Charge alongside +50% dmg on Blade Dance / Death Sweep.
The biggest issue is that Metamorphosis got completly gutted by the looks of it.
You need to spend 6 points overall combined in the normal tree and the havoc tree to make it normal again. Theres no reason for it to be a 3 minute CD when Metamorphosis itself does not do so much anymore, but maybe the new old nodes in form of Relentless Hunter and Inner Demon make up for it.
Changes Iâd like to see:
Darkness and Vengeful Retreat both lose their nodes and instead become their normal versions. Feels awful to spend 4 nodes overall to make these two normal again, while theyâre both not that amazing to begin with. Vengeful with no slow will feel terrible.
Illdari knowledge should go from 4% to atleast 8% or even the 10% we had, but this might make Tanks need it everytime. Maybe 10% for Havoc and 5% for Vengeance DH would fix this.
Eye Beam needing 3 nodes overall to be normal aswell is a big bummer. It feels like theyâre afraid of giving the Spec a bit more stuff with butchering abilities like this, although this isnt an unique problem to Havoc.
The wait however has paid off. We will be absolute CC monsters and have more buttons to press aswell as way more fun ways to play the spec.
4s Fel Eruption â 6s Disorient â 5s Incap â 6s Silence. 21 sec CC Window. Its gonna be nasty.
Eye Beam â Death Sweep â Glaive Tempest â Annihiliation with Inner Demon â Unbound Chaos will be massive burst potential. And then you still even have the The Hunt ontop of that.
These changes overall are very good though, Havoc desperately needed something more than just being a tuning battery, and now they offer both as Havoc and Vengeance a lot to the group.
I just hope they destroy both Essence Break and Fodder to the Flame. Colossal Smash windows are boring, although Demonic is essentially just that, and Fodder is the biggest mistake theyâve done to the Class next to Mana Rift.
Letâs be honest, DH will be top tier toghetter with Warrior/Ret Pally (and obviously Hunter/Mage/WL like always?).
They cucked some classes all SL so now they have to redeem themselfs and make them âslightlyâ OPâŚ
thatâs like half the classes you placed there in the top tier
and you forgot rogues
Here is how I see things, I know it is just the first alpha-build, and itâs just my hype talking. Reminder itâs PvP only because as numbers are not fixed, we canât really talk about PvE for now.
Class tree speaks for itself, nothing much to talk about.
- You go search Sigil of Silence and Misery, and their related talents
- The Hunt and Unnatural Malice
- Not sure about Precise Sigils or Concentrated Sigils (for more duration but you have to move close to your target, i think Precise is more reliable)
I feel like we donât miss anything here compared to Shadowlands. But maybe Iâm wrong. Can switch Darkness for Vengeful Restraint because 20% avoid for 5mins cd seems kinda weakâŚ
For Havoc Class tree, I focus around the combo :
Immolation Aura (build Fel Bombardment 5 stacks + Unbound Chaos + Ragefire) â CC on target+healer 2-3 sec before Immolation aura ends â Fel rush close to target â Elysian Decree â The Hunt â Throw Glaive â Fel Barrage.
Elysian Decree + The Hunt + Ragefire should explode at the same time, Throw Glaives 1 GCD later with Fel Bombardment + Soulrend.
You can either finish with Fel Barrage, which deals damage during The Hunt and Soulrend dots, or swap it for Glaive tempest before the combo, and put Fel Rush after Throw Glaive instead.
This takes litteraly 2 secondes, require 0 fury and is usable every 1.5min, 45-50sec without The Hunt. You dont need Eye Beam or Metamorphosis, but you can add them for extra haste.
Outside of it, you still have your Shadowland burst : Eye Beam + Unbound Chaos + Inner Demon
The build synergize well together :
- Any Means Necessary combos with Charred Blades and The Hunt to provide extra healing.
- Burning Wounds and Know Your Enemy help Ragefire to do even more damage.
- Know Your Enemy is a must-have in a burst perspective.
You may miss Netherwalk, and sacrifice all sustain damage that you have on the left side of the build, but I will definitly try it out.
Whats are your thoughts ? Do you want to share your own build ?
I was hoping to not see sinful brand there. Not only they delivered, they slammed it so hard demon hunters might be more fun than ever. Canât wait.
Maybe Iâll become one of those saying ââI played for ** yearsââ screeching for alpha cause this is so exciting
What I see for PvE Single Target :
looking at those NYI talents, it seems like secondary stats will shift to crit mastery from haste versa.
pretty cool
they can nerf the damage in PvP to stop this issue though, the talent tree doesnt entirely have to change to prevent the issue⌠depending on how well its recieved from a PvE point of view atleast.
hopefulyl this is a good indication that the classes skill cap may raise up.
looking positive, outside still missing a rework to meta to make it more fun then a 5 min Burst CD>
both have a long CD.
As it stands it will be very difficult to spec into CD reduction for misery as well.
letâs say everything that isnât zugzug to death is just welcome.
Because if all they got is dmg to win games, then they need overwhelming dmg or crazy MS numbers. If they got some control, you can win games without mongo dmg as well
- CD is reduced to 4mins with a talent
- you can opt. for 2 min meta if you give up demonic
- with the cap talent you can prolong your meta time quite a bit
- Or talent cycle for even short CD
So meta isnât really a burst CD anymore if you are probably 80% of the time in meta anyways
the way i am looking at it is, if right now they are competitive without the sigils, then you canât give them the sigils without taking something away, or you break them.
on the other hand, all classes seem to be getting new things, so we may end up with parity, so it will be pretty neat to have more options
also donât knock zugzug. zugzug is love.