Note ‘mechanically’. Lore is not burdened by the need to be fair in order to be attractive.
Elaborate.
Although I should really go to sleep soon because, while it is weekend, it is still almost 6 in the morning…
Yes it is, lmao. Alliance loses a city, Horde loses a city.
Alliance loses its High King, Horde loses its Warchief.
Neither can ever win, because players would quit.
That’s a very silly point of view.
You’re a lore purist saying gameplay sucks. Sure.
I’m a War3 purist saying WoW’s lore sucks because the Horde/Alliance would never employ Shadow Priests and Warlocks so close to Warcraft 3.
A War2 purist says War3’s lore sucks because Humans and Orcs would never work together.
And on and on the wheel spins. Everything is made to draw in players and keep them there. If that’s your argument against what Blizzard puts on your plate you might as well RP in Minecraft.
The eternal stalemate is just because the faction war sells. But we do not operate on that level. How DKs are described in chronicle won’t shift sub count.
Also, rude.
Yeah look at BFA, it’s making a killing.
The eternal stalemate is because if the Alliance wins the Horde players quit. They have to please both sides, which is why losses are almost always equal and some Lore choices make no sense ( like the Alliance taking in Warlocks in Vanilla when the Night Elves didn’t even tolerate the CLEAN ARCANE magic. )
Both Lore and Gameplay are results of wanting more money. Disregard one and you might as well disregard the other.
The level argument is a good example, though, Ghortag. Maybe not in the sense of numbers specifically, but on the average RPG terms.
RPGs & thusly RP tend to measure the ‘power level’ which we’re currently discussing through 'level’s. I’m not arguing about average now, keep in mind. I’m arguing about weak vs average.
You are not born a power machine or an arcane turret. You train and study for years to become a mage. A DK inherits the power from life, and is further given the power of death.
It is as simple as that. A DK is already a warrior that progressed, died, and got brought back. A warrior that’s just setting on their journey is weaker, both by gameplay standards, lore standards, storytelling standards, RP standards, and any kind of logic standard. Do you disagree with this?
Now on the topic of average power, you are right. There’s not many examples were we are given specifics. And that’s what beats your argument as well; fallacy. You do realise that to reach a conclusion drawn from a duel between not average sources inherently means that you’re using headcanon as well, right?
Unless either of can directly quote ‘this is an average warrior, who, against an average DK, had a 50/50 chance to win’ then I’m afraid we’re merely going around in a loop.
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Well, because Blizzard thinks it sells, anyway. Shifting it up might sell better, but Blizzard won’t risk their cash cow on it.
Ending with that feels like a good chance to go to bed. Thanks, Face.
Agh please don’t provoke me Ghortag I can’t resist responding when I am quoted 
![:+1:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/+1.png?v=6" ":+1:")
/10char
Yes, because the only reason DKs start at 55 is that they were brought in later. They were an expansion feature and they didn’t want players to start at lvl 1 to play it. Some would play WoW just for it, so they wanted DKs to enter action fast.
If DKs released today they’d start at level 108 probably, just like how DHs started at 98.
That’s all you have. And why would you believe the average would be different? But if you want to that much, you can just look at Warcraft 3 heroes I guess, where Paladins and Death Knights are both Hero classes and are fairly equal in power.
A level 1 Warrior isn’t freshly born. Pretty sure I can play an old dude.
And what about a really young dude? My warrior’s fairly young. What about a 25-y/old warrior vs a 60 year old one? Should we be the exact same power level just because we’re both RPing warriors?
DKs were not just random warriors of varying power levels being raised, however—that’s a fact. A hero. That’s what you once were. The opening cinematic is all we need. A DK is an adventurer from the time period of WotLK; adventurers did things such as:
- Kill Yogg’Saron
- Become Champions of their race in the Argent Tournament
- Find difficulty but success in killing a Twilight wyrm
And so forth. Canonically, every DK of the Acherus/3rd gen era has that potential and power.
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That’s only one of the reasons. The lore reason for it is also there. DKs died as heroes. That’s a fact. Meaning that if they were heroes in life, they were not freshmen or newbies, they were already a trained and skilled/strong member of their past class. So they started as DKs with already considerable skills and were further empowered by undeath and trained to be even more perfect killing machines.
So them starting at higher level makes perfect sense lore-wise as well. They didn’t die as some lvl 1 newbie. They died as fully-fledged heroes giving their lives to stop the scourge onslaught. The lore is there, the quote is there, I didn’t make it up.
Now take in factor that there’s unholy strength empowering the DKs. Yes that’s both mechanically and lore-wise a fact. So if they were at peak physical condition in life at the moment they died and took care of their bodies, then unholy power would only push them beyond normal physical strength. So if one already reached his/her racial physical limits in life, then in undeath they’d go beyond those limits. That’s something no amount of training can ever catch up with.
Couple that with almost complete numbness to pain (aside from the light), infinite stamina (meaning they can never tire and can go on until either killed or disabled) and the vampiric powers they can use. They’re the perfect killing machines. A warrior or a paladin would eventually tire and reach the heir physical limits. DKs have no limits. They can fight until the end of time if not stopped fast. They were designed to be the perfect, ultimate killers.
So if you wanna go against a seasoned dk and try to defeat them purely by physical strength, you’d almost certainly lose. That’s not to say that DKs are unkillable. Cut off their limbs, blow them up, weaken them with light/holy water/whatever weakens them, shoot them in the head, catch them off guard, burn them with magic, suppress their movement with magic if you can etc. But matching them physically blow for blow? Highly unlikely, if impossible for an average guy.
Though I have to admit that it obviously also depends on the race the dk is. Can a Tauren/orc/draenei/worgen go against a gnome dk in terms of physical strength? Most likely, yeah. Can they go against a Tauren/orc/draenei/worgen dk, so their own race? Highly improbable if not impossible.
Just my two cents.
2 Likes
It’s stated in Rise of the Lich King that Paladins don’t tire. The Light keeps them fresh.
An average guy wouldn’t be fighting a DK. I don’t know why you’re putting Joe the guardsman against a DK. DK are elite soldiers.
So are Paladins and Warriors.
You shouldn’t be anything. That’s entirely your prerogative. I’m simply saying DKs aren’t by default better than the other classes. Blizzard supports this through mechanics. If you have proof of it not being so I’m listening.
But don’t give me some line from a book about Arthas beating up Footmen, because Footmen aren’t Warriors.
Who told you that a raised DK, sans Unholy Strength, is as strong as he was in life? There really isn’t any proof of that and if you look at mechanics, a Warrior can compete with Paladins and DKs ( physical + MAGIC enhanced strength ) so that theory seems unlikely.
Undead feel pain from magic. Khadgar tortures one of Gul’dan’s Death Knights in Beyond the Dark Portal. Not the same exact thing, but both are raised corpses with a boatload of shadow magic going through them.
Lor’themar is wooing Thalyssra, looking to make himself Regent of Suramar and Quel’Thalas, and crown himself King of all Elves.
Can you blame him? She hawt
She’s BLUE!
So are Draenei!
And just like her, they’re scum.
I’ve got you fam
"Amid the fighting, corrosive fog crept over the battlefield. From the fetid mists, slain human soldiers rose from the dead and then launched themselves at their former comrades. At the head of this unholy army were a handful of hooded figures riding skeletal steeds.
The death knights had entered the field.
They charged through the stunned human army, inflicting pain and terror on their enemies. Orgrim watched the attack with a mix of displeasure and satisfaction. He was still uneasy about the death knights, but he now saw just how effective they were in combat.
The mere sight of the death knights horrified the humans, and the Alliance lines began to crumble."
- Chronicles 2, page 154
It was all magic though, not physical strength. Also Paladins hard countered the fog instantly with the Light.