But it’s the lore of THAT universe.
Just like how in parallel Draenor, Blackhand kills Orgrim instead of the other way around. Which is madness and doesn’t respect our own universe’s lore, which states Orgrim beat Blackhand in Mak’gora.
“Please, bring this conversation that is not in the topic to a dedicated thread” isn’t exactly “stop talking”, no matter how you want to turn it.
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And is just typing stories the purpose of the thread? I mean, it’s interesting to see how/where people base their headcanon on, and discuss/argue about whether or not they’re valid.
Things like that tend to expand your perspective & understanding, and are very useful to learn new things. I’m sure that, no matter how I turn it, you can continue adding onto the ‘intended’ purpose of the thread. It’s not like I’m going to cap a limit by discussing my headcanon vs Ghortag in a headcanon thread, right?
Which means it is/was a possibility, the same way a tauren is apparently physically capable of ripping an orc with sheer physical strength. Parallel universe or not, its not an out-of-Warcraft material.
Lore =/= history.
I came here, hoping to read some decent head canons down here.
Guys are are ofcourse free to discuss at length. But could you do so in a thread appropriate for it?
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It’s a possibility in THAT universe. You have no way of knowing the Garrosh/Baine and Doomhammer/Blackhand of those universes are equal to ours.
It’s pretty obvious that some of them got nerfed. For instance, the Ner’zhul of Draenor is far weaker than ours. Kargath in Draenor is also way stronger than Fel Orc Kargath in Outland. And so on.
Those differences make any comparison questionable.
Because its two people who seemingly won’t come to an agreement anyways are just blabbering on filling the… well, chat, with useless back-and-forth which nobody else is interested in
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I mean, I’m not interested in about 350 of the random posts/posters here. I came in, found something I was interested in, and started talking about it.
It just so happens that the thing we’re talking about is entirely about headcanon, so it really does have a place in the thread. idk, not being interested in something and telling people to go away/“discuss it elsewhere [away]” is a strange thing to me, especially on public forums.
I agree with that, ultimately. It simply falls down to the fact that there are inconsistencies and no matter what comparison we draw, from anywhere, we cannot specifically define one view more true than another. Anything that isn’t directly stated, really, is plain old speculation. Even, or rather especially, RP.
You stated that monks are the least played class- I gave you the pragmatic answer, which shows that you weren’t right.
Fortunarely your belief doesn’t matter a squat. Narrator is the voice of god, and Arthas isn’t the narrator, so I guess we’ll never know instead.
Again, you use a plot-weapon for your benefit when it suits your argument, but dismiss it in another. You either use it or you don’t, there’s no in-between.
Your opinion doesn’t matter. It’s not a question of a “Maybe”. The narrator clearly stated he was the superior fighter.
You look at -all- the lore to fill the gaps- Gameplay is just one part in that. Throughout your argument, you’ve used gameplay above all else to prove a point- Which, as said, makes your argument very slippery because you need to apply it into all situations, as we see.
Fortunately your opinion, again, doesn’t matter. We’ve a clear case-and-point of light interfering, despite Tirion not using a spell actively.
No, the reason is that the narrative dictated it to be so.
Your definition doesn’t matter. There were no rules. The other guy won. He lives to tell the tale, and is thus superior, unless stated otherwise by the narrator.
Good luck with that attitude, you’ll be laughed out of any credible argument.
In order for a view to be arguable it needs to be objected to others views, and if you shield it with your subjectivity it’s irrelevant because you’ll just believe rather than reason for your viewpoint.
No, you just showed that more characters exist.
Sure we will, Arthas couldn’t win with strength so he had to rely on speed. That’s canon, it’s how the fight went.
No, I use plot-weapon when it’s a plot-weapon.
Yes, there is. The weapons are entirely different. They have different properties and influence the fight differently.
No, he didn’t. He just won. Doesn’t make him a superior fighter.
No, I didn’t. I used it where there’s no lore to fill said gap.
Nah, that’s just Tirion’s own power.
By your logic, if I fight you and a truck runs you over I’m the superior fighter I guess.
In that case, your logic is pants on head and there’s no point discussing with you.
I’ll be laughed at by ignorants who are wrong. I can live with that.
Lmao Ghortag, at this point the things you are saying are literally painful to read. You dont give a damn about what the others say, disregarding it, thinking you are smarter than everyone else, but believe me chap, you are not
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Again, your opinion doesn’t matter. Narrators does.
The narrator doesn’t mention who was winning and who was losing. All we know is that arthas won. We also know he thought he couldn’t match uther in strength- But again, this is not the first time he’s wrong, and he winded up winning anyway.
There isn’t. Dancing runeblade is a bread and butter ability of DK’s, having a magical weapon is hardly a rare thing to happen in the game.
Meanwhile Grom’s axe, when it fit the narrative, was able to 1 shot mannoroth despite having to go through his spear and his armor and his demon hide. Even Cenarius gave a better fight.
Wow guess the demon blood and the weapon were plot-weapons in the end because I decide so lol.
Well there is plenty, as this thread shows. You not buckling and admitting you were wrong doesn’t matter.
Since you make the claim, you got to prove it.
He clearly says “The light will protect him”. Not “You can’t break my resolve” or anything similar.
If you had orchestrated the area so that I’d be ran over by one then yeah.
Fortunately your input doesn’t matter because you fail to provide any evidence so instead you’ll be ignored.
Did you actually read the book… ?
I feel like you didn’t.
Because Grom’s ridiculously strong? Garrosh impaled Taran Zhu on it and he’s just fine.
Gorehowl isn’t this supreme weapon. It’s just an axe. A really good one.
Meanwhile Frostmourne is weightless and is pretty much a one shot hack.
No, there’s just some stuff about DKs tearing through normal mooks, which every Class does on a regular basis. Paladins were wrecking through orcs no problem, too.
You don’t have proof, either. You only have Tirion saying the Light will help him, which is his personal belief and not a fact. There’s no evidence the Light is an actual being. Considering what the Scarlets and Blood Elves circa TBC were doing, it’s pretty obvious it’s not a real being.
Arthas didn’t do that, though. Ner’zhul helped him, Arthas had no idea he would. It wasn’t his plan.
Cool. I’ll be ignored knowing I’m right, I can live with that.
Shifting your argument?
When you can’t prove your point, you make a new claim?
Hardly. The fight against lich king involved tanks dealing with his blows, just like any raidboss. They weren’t instant killed.
And again, if you claim that Grom’s blood haze & axe are not plot weapons, your argument loses any ground. It’s either both or it isn’t.
You can’t conveniently decide when something is a plot weapon or when it isn’t. You got to follow through with it.
I didn’t say that. I never claimed that light is a person. But it certainly does intervene, like a lot of other unconscious cosmic powers do, when called or begged upon, by the champion or the situation they are in.
You are right about one thing though. Tirion absolutely could be delusional, and could be drawing the power through his own willpower. That’s a possibility.
But I never made that argument. The argument was that light can, and does, consciously make it’s own decisions and choices, though in a level the denizens of azeroth do not fully understand. This is proven by the audio drama, thousand years of war:
The Light cannot fully see destiny, though neither can the Void, for neither are singularly responsible for creation. The Light seeks one path and shuns all others as lies.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/A_Thousand_Years_of_War
Seeing, as you understand, involves some form of consciousness. Moreover, shunning or favoring one option over the other, also involves decision making, which again is a feat only a conscious force is capable of.
I don’t know which argument are you referring to? Nobody’s saying that other classes can’t do equally badass feats as DK’s can. DK’s can, however, do so better in the sense that they are defacto more powerful initially than your initial mage, warrior and other classes. This, again, is proven by the fact that they are literally labelled as a hero class and start at the level 55.
But, once reaching similar power levels, most classes have no trouble standing up to them and vice versa.
I don’t know which your argument is: Is it that all classes are equal in terms of power, or is it that DK’s are not more powerful than other classes? If the former, I am inclined to agree because ultimately narrative really only decides who triumphs over who in the story, just as in gameplay whatever version of the gameplay decides who can beat who, changing sometimes every patch, hotfix or expansion.
If it’s the latter, like said, I’m willing to agree if we look at classes at their very peak or generally past a certain power level (55). But before that, DK’s and DH’s absolutely are, without a doubt, more powerful than lets say your starting orc warrior whose first task is to kill some boars in Durotar.
Doesn’t matter. Ner’zhul was part of his kit, just like the light was part of Uthers. Ner’zhul wasn’t some random force of nature that just decided to help Arthas randomly- He very much did it with great intent and claim.
No, you claim that the book doesn’t make it clear who was winning and it’s rather obvious, so I question whether you read the book or not.
Arthas never fought the players seriously.
???
I really don’t get what you’re getting at here. Arthas won that fight because Frostmourne was so light it allowed him to attack faster than Uther, while also doing more damage. He wasn’t more skilled, or stronger. He just had the superior weapon. And even with the superior weapon he got disarmed and was about to have his skull caved in before Ner’zhul moved the sword back into his hands.
The Light cannot intervene any more than Arcane of ''The Fel" can. It is summoned by the user, it’s a type of energy you can control. But it does not act on its own.
Most Paladins are. They built a religion around something that’s not a sentient being. Uther’s quote is that ‘‘it’’ loves them, when it’s not a real thing.
Both of those.
Because, again, they are expansion features. They were made so that you can jump into the action. Just like how nowadays they re giving you a level boost when you buy the game.
Well, I disagree with that. It’s like saying Illidan is a superior fighter to Sargeras because Sargeras ended up imprisoned due to Illidan and his army.
No, you made the case from the beginning, very clearly, that in Arthas’s opinion, Uther was the “stronger” combatant. I pointed out that an opinion is just that, an opinion, and unless the narrator made effort to tell which one of them was stronger, the claim is pointless.
Now, when you realized that argument was a dead-end, you question if I’ve read the book or not? Why? If you have read the book, you’d know if there was a point in the book where the narrator says, just like in the shattering novel with Cairne & Garrosh that “x was a stronger/Better/superior/ w/e adjective - than the other”.
But there isn’t. You asking me if I have read the book or not doesn’t doesn’t serve your argument at all, since you making the claim still means the burden of proof lies on you, not me. I’ve read the duel bit very clearly after Nobbel made a video of arthas several years back.
Doesn’t matter. If his weapon was as “1 shot” and overpowered as you argued, it’d not matter if he went easy on them or not, although I’m willing to make the argument that he didn’t.
And Grom won because he suddenly got ultra instinct playing in his ears and for some reason was able to cut through a polearm with his axe that has a giant edge, and plate armor, and through annihilian hide, without much of an issue.
If you make the plot weapon argument, again, you got to carry it forward. You can’t conveniently decide when it suits you or when it doesn’t. There’s no middle ground. It’s hypocritical.
No, this is absolutely not the case.
A demon hunter and DK are already infused with power and have done dark rituals and sacrifices to quickly climb in power- They are already, defacto, more powerful than your starting orc warrior because that orc warrior doesn’t have anybody to infuse himself with any power.
And again, I can just use your own argument here against you because if you claim it’s just an expansion feature, I can just as easily rebuke it and say that no it’s a very intended experience, to distinguish the two classes from the rest.
Doesn’t matter. He was part of his kit, whether you like it or not.
And yeah in hindsight, Sargeras really was the lesser of the two because he had his own grand plan turned against him, which was orchestrated by not only Illidan, but the AoTL and the other titans too.
He lost. And Illidan, did win.
Actually, from the very beginning, I said Uther was physically stronger, because this whole sh!tstorm was about that dude saying DKs are physically stronger than other classes.
I disagree with that sentiment- As you can see from my argument. I don’t really care about the physical strength argument because it is insanely hard to determine which is raw physical strength and which is magically empowered strength. But on principle, I think a warrior/paladin/DK, once at peak level, are equally “strong”, in the sense that you could put them all to bench press and they’d more or less come with the same results.
What I still disagree with you though, is that was Uther really stronger than Arthas was. There’s simply no conclusive argument to be made, since we only have Arthas’s opinion, and no word-of-god from the narrator.
Then we agree, great.
I mean, Arthas meets his blows and fails to keep up. He describes him as stronger than him, so I don’t know what else you want.
When it’s a matter of raw strength, why wouldn’t that be enough?
Arthas wasn’t exactly a humble person either.
How much gold wants to bet Ghort only says Warriors are stronger because he’s a Warrior himself?
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When you want to post your own headcanon but afraid it’ll get buried in the pile of posts ![:sob:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/sob.png?v=6" ":sob:")
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