I don’t think it’s that so much as that we live in a world where pointing out people’s mistakes is considered ‘toxic’. We’ve had that a few times now in my mythic raid guild, where people can’t handle being told they’re doing things wrong and have left the guild and accused us of toxicity. How else are you supposed to improve if no-one ever points out your mistakes?
There are two ways to point out a mistake. One is to offer advice, and another is to point and laugh.
People who can’t tell the difference are toxic.
Yes, players should be able to respond to criticism and not get angry, but if you’re someone who’s telling them there’s a problem it’s also on you to do so in a respectful and helpful way.
3 Likes
Look, I’ve seen mythic prog kills where some people stood in or cut through voidzones because it helped them push numbers or handle other mechanics.
Perfect gameplay is not about minimizing damage taken. It’s about doing your role, pushing numbers as high as possible and not dying or being a disruptive burden for others.
1 Like
Player: “You stood in fire and took avoidable damage.”
Ishayo: “You’re so toxic.”
Seriously, that’s what I’m getting from this.
100% agree, but when the group is wiping to people’s mistakes, you either point them out or carry on wiping.
Your addon can’t distinguish whether someone stood in an AOE because they’re clueless or because they had a valid reason to.
This makes said addon worthless.
The addon can’t tell you why you wiped. We actually kicked a healer from our guild a few years back because he popped all his CDs at pull everyone else’s heals went into overheal, then we died to damage because he didn’t have CDs. He then linked a HPS meter and told the others to pick up the slack.
Numbers usually don’t speak for themselves. That’s why the most important quality of a good raidleader is figuring out why the wipe happened.
1 Like
The conversation seems to have moved on a little from “the addon” now…
You would be correct.
I have led mythic raids for 5 years and told people they were making mistakes and how to fix them hundreds of times, and I never ONCE linked damage taken to them or just told them to stop standing in bad with no further comment or advice. Not even a single time.
You claim this addon tells you people’s performance, we told you it doesn’t. I’ve also never seen it being used by high key pushers on their streams.
It screams of something the mid-range players use who think it makes them better.
2 Likes
Or simply that he got in a stressful situation. I mean I’ve tried to get targeted or had to otherwise deal with 4 single responsibility mechanics at the same time once. If ANYONE had told me I was bad for messing that up (without it being in jest of course) I’d be gone in 6 seconds. Will it happen again? No, because the chance for me to get all that at once was near zero. Go again.
But yes, you clearly get it. 
1. Add some level of randomness to the behavior of trash-mobs and bosses:
- Patrolling packs with not predictable routes
- Mobs with variety of skills
- Mobs sometimes try to run and call friends
- Mobs sometimes trying to rise an alarm in the area
- Bosses with higher variety of skills, that they are using more randomly
2. Prohibit using addons in M+
That will be a challenge that requires good reaction, adaptation and improvisation skills.
Because if addons saying you what and when to push, where to run and what happened if all when wrong – so half of the score and loot should be sent to the addons developers then.
Make players actually PLAY a game, relaying on their own brain, attention, memory reaction speed – that will be a challenge and true skill check.
I can hear people getting their torches and pitchforks. RNG in competitive PvP is annoying. In PvE it’s almost a war crime.
I think some addons in some high end PvE are degrading gameplay value and are making people focus on boxes, bars and icons instead of dragons, spells and characters.
I don’t think simply removing addons will improve the experience as many of them exist precisely because the vanilla experience is tedious and unfun.
That’s why I don’t play “serious content” anymore. I am more interested in dragons than numbers.
If game cannot be played comfortably without third party software – it is just awful game design.
The game could be much better if the content was made with the idea that it would be played WITHOUT addons. But addons should be strictly prohibited in this case.
That’s one way to kill off a large amount of healers.
I’m not about to heal with the default UI.
I don’t think I’d tank with it either.
I said nothing of the sort. I said it reports avoidable damage taken, which is is exactly what it does and is information people can choose to make use of it they want to.
Stop trying to claim people said things they didn’t. It isn’t cool.
Stating facts is toxic now? I’m glad I don’t play with people who have such fragile egos.
Goodness gracious.
Yes, sometimes stating a fact matter-of-factly is a rather rude thing to do. How is this even a concept that has to be explained?
For a more extreme example, imagine a situation where someone loses their cat because they spilled boiling water on it as it tripped them in the kitchen. Absolutely horrible accident, and the person is completely devastated.
And then you come along: “Your cat is dead because you are a clumsy git who doesn’t watch his feet”
Factually correct? Yes. But that doesn’t make it useful - you’re just causing further trauma.
Same in this case in principle - if you haven’t got anything useful to say when someone has made a mistake, especially in cases where they know they made a mistake, just be quiet.
We had a priest on fyrakk not really dispelling so people died with massive stacks. I had the dispels open at the time and said on comms “xxx can you please make sure you’re dispelling, we’re losing ppl to the dot”.
We called the wipe, that person mass dispelled, then linked the total dispels done and said “its the other healers…”
Some people are just douches. A normal person woulda just said “gotcha, I’ll fix it next pull”. This fella did something underhanded to obscure it and then blame others.
Not massively relevant but I s’pose it talks to how to receive criticism constructively.
1 Like
If your group wipes and looking at damage taken helps you identify why, then feel free to point out what you believe happened.
But if after a wipe you simply link an “avoidable damage taken” list, I’d kick you before the last line appears in chat.
How they did the changes in 10.1
Upcoming Player Health and Enemy Damage Increased by 25% in Patch 10.1 - Wowhead News
changes in 10.0.
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/74646-big-healer-changes-and-class-reworks-coming-in-patch-102/
So people disagreeing with Elahra need to cut them some slack
Healers have undergone some huge changes
can you explain the sense in this for me?
Adding 25% health and 25% damage negates each other while making damage reduction nominal stronger (percentage wise stays the same) and heals just weaker (percentage wise) but you also feel much weaker because the bars move still the same amount from enemy abilities, but less from yours (with exeption of the buffed heal specs). But in the first sentence they say: “When damage mitigation abilities and healing are too strong relative to player health, the only way to threaten players is to make enemy damage very high and spiky.”
It is like they are idiots, right, right?
They have to increase stamina while nerfing heal and enemy damage to make it a better experience, where bars are not spiky and you need time to heal.
Then the wipe comes from too much damage intake, which cant be healed in time anymore. It comes slower than oneshots for sure. The extreme would be unsatisfying but when doing like 25% more health, 25% less enemy damage, 50% less heal on MW/DISC/RDRUID, then it would be one step into this direction.
But the M+ scaling has to go up with it, otherwise you would now push lvl 35-40 keys. So allround scaling higher, while fixing the relations like above.