Help! They ruined devoker :((((

Community General Discussion
1

Hi!

So, I’ve spent this expansion as an evoker main but I simply cannot take the torture anymore. I never quite clicked with preservation (which isn’t an issue anyway), and I struggle to bring myself to play augmentation because I LOVE devastation but dev’s current situation is horrible. The damage is fine, defensives are at best okay, mobility and flavor feel great but constantly living under aug’s shadow is simply exasperating. The hardest part about the game for me atm is getting an invite to anything I want to do. Evokers haven’t even lived out a full expansion and 2 specs are already basically useless and completely unwanted in 95% of groups. It just feels… awful. The Scalecommander tree will be hard to gauge until alpha drops, and I don’t have too much hope for the Ruby Adept tree because it’s shared with pres (I want to be wrong so bad). I thought devoker would be a solid pick for the entire expansion as it was a new spec but damn was I wrong.

Do I just swap to aug main? Or reroll? I’ve played every caster to varying extents, I would likely choose shadow priest just because it has PI and stam buff. The only other ranged I enjoy are BM hunter and destro lock. I want to actually feel useful while maintaining a fun rotation, dev evoker is so fun but feeling useless/unwanted removes any joy I get while playing it. BM is fun I just get bored quickly, and its defensives are kinda lacking for higher keys. I haven’t actually played destro for a few expansions now but it’s always been pretty strong I think?? So, do I go aug or swap?

I should also add that I want this choice to be solid and more long-term, possibly through as much as the world soul saga as possible. I just feel genuinely upset when I think about dev’s situation lol

2

This is why Aug was a mistake. If the hero specs give more support classes then dev should be better again or just remove Aug as a failed experiment

3 Likes
3

I don’t think aug itself is a HUGE mistake. I really enjoyed it when it first dropped and it was really strong, but its ability to buff tanks/healers is just absurd. 2 or maybe even 3 more support specs could help, but I wish they would just remove it from the game or rework it so that 80% of its damage is personal but it keeps prescience limited to being cast on other dps only. Aug as it is has completely destroyed the expansion for anyone who loved playing dev/pres in my opinion :frowning:

4

I played Devastation Evoker this season, but recently switched to a resto shaman that I’ll main in the next season and expansion. The shaman seems to be a perfect match for me.

I didn’t have trouble getting invited to 18-20s with the evoker, though beyond that I think it would have been difficult. I like the utility of the devoker, but it’s largely shared with augmentation. While devastation’s damage is okay, it’s not stellar. I also eventually got frustrated with channeling and considered healing, but Preservation unfortunately doesn’t work for me or the type of groups I tend to play with.

Augmentation didn’t do it for me, either. I’d have played the spec if I had found it interesting and satisfying to play, but that wasn’t the case. It felt like a “the ends justify the means” kind of spec that lets you get far if you play with higher skilled players, but if it’s not fun, then there’s no point for me to play it.

6

I played destro in pvp and it was really fun (pushed to 1.4k in shuffle).

In the open world aswell is really strong. With just explorer gear at 5/8 upgraded I manage to solo ZC rares with ease.

7

I’ve got to roughly 3250 rio as dev (char’s rio is slightly higher as a couple of my highest were done as aug) and I found an almost complete block as soon as I hit +25s. Up until there it wasn’t too hard to get an invite but after that it’s just impossible. I want to do those slightly higher keys but I know you have to play something more ‘meta’ :frowning:

8

25s? Last season I couldn’t even get into 20s as dev. 2500 score at that point

9

That is really excellent for devastation, though, especially if you did some of those keys in pugs. It puts you into the top-100 of devastation evokers in the world. That’s quite the achievement! (It would be a really nice change if there were spec-based titles instead of just an all-specs 0.1% title.)

10

well for prevoker they could fix it quite easily at least more or less.
If you ever played a prevoker in group you know exactly why it is terrible. For the best experience, invite some hunters.

  1. the range is crap
  2. cone healing? yea that works super great when people have more range than you and always stand behind you
  3. long cast times (spirit bloom takes forever to cast)
  4. statis is clunky as crap and the duration you can hold it is too short
  5. echo mechanic is mega annoying as every single spell consumes it
  6. Your biggest heal is tied to a spell that can get you killed easily, but you have to use it. Yes you can use it on yourself but you lose so much…

Devoker is just in a spot where nobody needs it.
I had some devokers that did great dmg, but besides that I didn’t even notice they were there.
They are quite squishy without defensives, so they are annoying to have next to another squishy like hunters.

it greatly depending on what content you play.
Destro lock gets only really great in very high keys with tanks that know how to play around you. In lower keys destro usually is terrible, besides ST which is great. But also WL in general don’t bring anything special to the table.

BM hunter is super good for mid range keys and fall of in very very high keys, which you are probably unlikely to play. BM is currently a great choice for ez mode chill keys.

Regardless what you choose, you will always wait in queue unless you highly overgear and outscore the key you want to play.

I wouldn’t be to sure if that drastically changes when you actually play a meta class.
E.g. if you swap to ret now, you probably also hit a wall because every key I queue on any level has like 50 rets applying. The chance that you get invited is just generally low.

Typical classes that I see in keys a lot are always:
mages
ret
dh / BM

11

Yeah, i am currently leveling my preservation dragon (now lvl 68). It is clear i am not going to play this spec in more serious content. Good to have leveled the spec and dipped into it seeing how the playstyle is. But i am not really going to play the char any further.

12

OP is 100% right. They should simply delete Aug.

Why do people keep insisting on this?

It adds to the confusion. Any feedback that Blizz gets (if they even read it) is confusing…

I will keep reminding the “populance” that Aug is NOT a support spec. Its a DPS. Its classified as a DPS, and it replaces a DPS slot.

And if you need any proof, when you quew to LFR, LFG, or any other automatic quew system, what button do you press? Healer, Tank, DPS (HINT), or, Support?

Its DPS right? Well its a DPS.

And THAT is where ALL the problems with Aug stem from. You CANNOT make a spec so unique, so different from everything else with out breaking the game completly.

Just imagine for a seccond that a Resto Shaman could count as a DPS. And some groups could go with 1 healer, 2 dps, and another dps that can heal as much as the healer…

When 1 spec has the luxery of allowing some groups to go with 2 healers it would be OP. Its absurd if you consider ANY other spec !!!

SO… Aug, and ANY other support ability or future spec is doomed to fail.

The ONLY solutions are: (A) Delete Aug. (B) Make a proper support ROLE. And balance ALL PvE content (and PvP too) arround tank+healer+support+dps.

And (B) is such a monumental task that IMO it can ONLY be done if they make WoW2. It cant be done in the current version.

So the best is option (A). Delete Aug.

13

BEcause rn we are compairing aug to dps where itt doesnt belong, more specs to define the role would definetely help.

I appreciate the enthusiasm but no that is not the best option, possibly for your POV as you can’t see support becoming an actual thing is something only possible for a WoW2 but personally I think it’s definetely doable in current wow, a big change, no doubt but personally i’m on the opposite side, the more supports the more defined the role becomes and the more well balanced the game becomes towards them, but as it stands currently aug shouldn’t have been the only one, we shouldv’ve recieved atleast another two for a true test.

1 Like
14

I understand but I was pushing 23s first week (as aug though), I just fell off really quickly because I started only playing dev and the hardest part is getting an invite. If I had played havoc from the start of the season I think I would be a lot farther than I am as evoker

15

yeah i’ve hovered around rank 75 this season, but it hasn’t been too difficult as i hit 3k pretty early as aug then swapped to playing dev. and nobody is playing it. it just feels awful knowing i have almost 1 mil hp, good use of defensives but can’t get my score any higher because NO pugs will take a dev evoker unless they have huuuge rating like 3.5k and up. i do agree on the spec-based titles/achis, would add a nice layer and more ppl would feel rewarded i suppose

16

i’m fine with “support” specs being labelled as dps - my issue is aug being the sole example of it. it just makes zero sense to me. i wanted a tank spec :frowning:

17

Please. Read carefully what I wrote.

What you think or not is irrelevant. Heck, what I think is irrelevant.

What is relevant are FACTS. And the facts are that Aug is classified as a DPS.

And because that is a FACT today, more specs will just mean replacing more DPS. And more problems.

Simply: Tell me what would happen if you run an M+ dungeon with an Aug and some other “support” spec huh? What sort of interaction would you have 2 buffing specs buffing eachother and the dps?

What kind of balancing nightmare would that be? So now you have to balance each DPS spec so that it does ~ equal DPS as everyone else… PLUS its interactions with 1 Aug, and as you propose, potentially another spec? AND PI?

Forget it. You need a Support roll if you want Aug in the game. And adding more speks like Aug will just ruin the game even further.

My enthusiasm?

Let me remind you what happened when Aug shipped in 10.1.7. It literally destroyed the Raid, M+ and PvP scene for 3 months. S2 literally stopped existing for many players.

And that was inspite all the negative feedback they received from beta testers, players posting in the forums, professional testers, and community representatives.

Where is all the copium you smoked? Cause I got none left to be honest.

18

OK. Answer this then. You can do it with Gilvion if you want:

19

this is true

Well they could rework some specs to be support, that way we dont get more specs on top but instead we get the same amount of dps specs int he game.

I don’t follow the train of thought here, you can literally answer that yourself, go pick two augs in one key, that would be the interaction. I’m not sure what the point is in this argument, you are stating that they would buff them to do more dmg because… the group leader made poor choices. So under that logic if we all suddenly start just taking one tank and teh rest healers, blizz will be forced to make healers do no dmg? That’s not how that works, it’s not up to blizz to accomodate the chouices, it’s up to them to give us the choices to make, how poorly we make them isn’t their concern or shouldn’t be.

This is true the overtuning of an entirely new playstyle was alot to have to manage and for some it did significant damage no doubt, but this was always gonna be the case, either it was this or the spec was worse then garbage.

I do not remember this, from what I remember it was at best slight concern. It’s possible that I never noticed it from within my circle, but from the videos I saw about it beffore release it was genuinely praised and a risk that we were glad to see blizz taking as the playstyle has been requested for ages.

Don’t have any, just a positive guy who enjoys playing support. I can assure you that.

For now, slow steps as we are used to from blizz, realistically I expect to see a support role within the next three at some point as an expantion feature or when additional ones get added.

20

You dont get it.

What I mean with “replace” has noting to do with the total amount of DPS specs.

A dungeon is 1 healer, 1 tank and 3 dps.

1 Aug means 2 dps slots. 2 “support specs” means only 1 dps slot left. WHO? Well the one that does 0.1% more dps than everyone else.

And in this hypothetical comp you have 2 support specs and 1 dps, that 0.1% more dps transforms into dunno… 20% more than any other DPS spec.

Its an impossible situation. You cant possibly balance all pure DPS specs to be exactly the same as all the rest.

2 DIFFERENT “support” specs means in DPS terms 1 ret and 1 rogue for example.

ALL the massive parragraph you mention is the equivalent of taking 2 rets. Which is a bad idea because you loose spec diversity.

But adding MORE “support specs” classified as a DPS means that whoever plays them has a right to occupy a DPS slot as long as specs are not repeated (which would be a net detriment). So the system is built to promote spec diversity, so we can all have a chance to play the game.

Otherwise the “meta” would be 3 ret palas. Or the raid would be 16 ret palas, 3 Resto Shamans and 2 Blood DKs for example. But moving on:

If you DONT allow an Aug to interact with new “support rolls” means that whoever plays them is in a net disadvantage. Not only because you would not be invited into groups (as you would NOT invite 2 healers for example). But also because mathematically it would be a DPS loss to have more than 1 “support spec”.

But if you DO allow interaction, you enter the dark room of buffs buffing buffs stacking on top of CDs situation. Which is a NIGHTMARE.

Its a disaster not only for the community. But for the players themselves to keep “buffer DPS” classified as DPS and not on a separate roll.

Well if it was known it was gonna be so black and white. And the REASONS were known. Then why was the decision taken in the first place? And followup question: Why are certain people so adamant to repeat the same mistake TWICE?

People tend to ignore comments that contradict their point of view.

And, to be honest, any sensible comment as to WHY it was a bad idea was buried in comments like yours (no offense): it would be “cool” to for ME to have Support Specs but I wont think about the overall consequences such a thing might have in the game.

And its IMPORTANT. Because YOU might like support rolls. But if you got nobody to play with (healers, tanks, or DDs)… is it a win or a loss for you?

You might enjoy it. But I can tell you that 99% of people I meet are not happy with the devastation it did in S2. And DONT want to see it again. OP is just the last post on this subject.

Well I hope they do. And it would be nice.

But until I see a 1-1-3-1 comp in M+ (6 players, 1 healer, 1 tank, 3 DD and 1 support), Aug and any other “support spec” or “support ability” (looking at you PI) should be deleted.

And EDIT: I also want to see a method of tracking the “Support” spec/roll’s performance. Im tired of not knowing who is a good “support” and who isent. Its absurd.

All this effort to try to “balance” and “fit” these things could be better spent on actually doing the support roll. Right now its just a waste of dev time that just delays the inevitable.

21

Now there are many things that I’ve never said in this sentence, however the general idea is present I suppose, if not overtly aggressive. About the overall consequences it’ll have on the game is very interesting that you bring it up, I think you heavily rely on the competitive side of wow and therefor only hear those who are both satisfied and annoyed about the current situation regarding supports, but as a semi-casual myself I cant tell you how many players I’ve met that have wanted a support spec for ages and still think there is more to gain.

I know it’s kind of like saying no you, but I truly think it’s important to understand that the game should be balanced around the majority of players, which would be casuals to low rio, so those who don’t know the effect of every little hotfix or balance.

Neither of us are able to speak for the majority of the wow community, it’s simply not possible to be able to definetely speak for the “correct path” for the game, sometimes the balance of high level shouldn’t be the reason those in a lower position don’t get what they’ve been asking for, so in that sense I can ONLY state what I as a player want because especially when it comes to these FACTS we can only take outside sources if either a general questionare is performed or from other competitive streamers not happy with their insanely minmaxed playstyle of the game being shaken up like this.

So I would ask that as much as you may have heard many players dislike it the same way you do, I have also heard many players be for it. So to say what the majority wants is difficult to say the least.

Well no spec should be deleted cause if we are allowing blizz to do that as far as I’m concerned the support specs should be implemented next patch but they wont the same way they wont delete an entire specs purpose, rework it so the job is done in a different more friendly manner yes, but to delete a spec would be the worst thing they can do, imagine for a moment that the character you spend so much time in, because you like this spec and playstyle, which for aug will be especially alot either for meta reasons or for the hyperspecific playstyle of the support that alot of players were looking forward to, would simply dissapear from one patch, because some insanely high ranked players felt that the first implementation that effected their circle got damaged and now they will yell and scream at blizzard to remove it until they cave in.

In this scenario, you leaving the game would be the nice way, the other way is to be eternaly spiteful towards the competitive players for ruining what other players might have wanted to play, wether that be a normal spec or a support spec.

With this in mind I do not consider support specs being removed from the game as an option, the only option is to make it work in my eyes.

But since we have had this debate before numerous times an multiple different threads, I will simply state to agree to disagree on this topic now that both sides have expressed their opinion on the matter and now all that’s left is to see what the future holds