This is quite challenging for 460 ilevel loot in a pug. No, I’m not talking about the first 3 bosses. I already know people are going to pretend that it’s easy but it’s not true, this is so ridiculously hard in pug unless the whole raid outgears the content. It’s simply overtuned. I’m talking about fights like Xanesh, Vexiona, Il’gynoth, Raden. It’s insane. It’s like they tuned this content for 470 ilvl. None of this can be pugged in a raid with average 455 ilevel. If you’re going to pretend it’s easy then why is it SO much easier to pug a +11 dungeon and get the same rewards?
These fights are gimmicky. If you can not pull them off on 460 then you can not do it either on 485. Football need to be played.
13 Likes
or you’re just not up to the task.
And ilvl is a weak metric nowadays.
Preach did a comparision of performance between two 470 characters - one had optimized corruptions, traits and essences, the other had “decent” ones but not optimal.
The differential was 40%. Astoundingly large gap.
You’re propably a ragtag group of players with crap traits, next to no good corruption and mish-mash of stats on gear. It’s not going to happen in a PUG.
10 Likes
Or you can just stick to normal and not make the game easier for people who are able to do it , its not rocket science
4 Likes
Stop pugging and find a guild.
8 Likes
I agree but then again I don’t think raids need to be puggable so it’s OK.
In a coordinated guild group 445-450 is fine to clear. In a pug where nobody cares and just tunnel-vision DPS you must outgear it.
If you lower the difficulty / mechanics it becomes too boring for guilds. In my opinion, guilds are more important to enjoy raids than pugs.
4 Likes
I was just in raid where most people had 470+ ilevel and we wiped about 15 times on Il’gynoth. Everyone knew exactly what to do. This is ridiculous.
If everyone knows what to do (and does it), how do you wipe?
11 Likes
Do you seriously think the heroic raid is tuned for 455 ilvl?
you said most were 470+ ilvl tho
2 Likes
No I think 15 ilvl below what drops, therefore 445 for the first 10 and then 455
4 Likes
My point is that if most people in raid are 470+ we should clear it without much problem, especially because everyone knew tactics. This is insanely overtuned.
So what went wrong?
2 Likes
I dont think u all knew what to do. It should not be a problem to clear with ppl in 470+ gear knowing what to do.
4 Likes
We killed it with our guild below 470 average on the group, with some grey parses too 
We even get to the point where we get no mindcontrolled in the first 2 phases. We basically muscle through.
1 Like
On my first N’Zoth kill, the raid wide average ilvl was 454. This was a few weeks after release and we were all still wearing mostly Eternal Palace gear
2 Likes
You know how crazy it is to make it through 3 phases with the pools and then half the raid gets mind-controlled each time. Nobody wants to wipe for hours on a boss that drops the same loot as +11 AD.
if anything the raid is undertuned
edit: if you can’t kill the bosses your raid is bad
5 Likes
If they get MCd they failed mechanics
6 Likes
When half of the raid gets mindcontrolled, definitely something is handled wrong. Like pre spreading and stunning the ones. And like Xanesh football; this is the mechanic. This has nothing to do with ilvl at all.
3 Likes