Homophobia in roleplay needs to cease

Yeah bigots still tend to frame their dislikes within the realm of their experience. Like you find people who are racially bigoted have tended to either been exposed to media that paints that picture, or grew up in areas with a lot of ethnic minorities for example, or where ethnic minorities are stereotyped into certain jobs.

Bigots don’t just wake up one day and go “immo no like brown people”, it doesn’t come ex nihilo. There is always exposure to some degree to something that fuels their stance. It could be undue influences or it could be experiencing people different to themselves and for some reason they decide “i don’t like this” (why they reach that conclusion is another discussion in itself, because I contend without undue influences it is pretty unreasonable for them to develop a bias, even if different, unless the different aprty is behaving towards them in a way that fuels the bigotry).

I guess my point is it doesn’t make sense, it’s a bigotry plucked from the real world and inserted into WoW for reasons that are shallow, because you can accomplish the same thing (making a character flawed and unlikable) through other means which are actually plausible and coherent to the setting. It doesn’t do anything special, and yet requires you to go to a lot of trouble of figuring out a plausible reason why your character is this way.

It’s like me deciding I want Paxmillian here to be unlikable. As a mechagnome there are various ways I could go about this that are plausible, like making him a know-it-all, making him talk to people like they’re of animal intellect, regarding people of objects, lacking social etiquette etc, all of these are really plausible ways to make him unlikable that don’t require me to construct much beyond reasonable assumptions. I could also decide i’ll make him unlikable because he is racist against anything that lacks the peachy skin tones that gnomes have. Seeing as Mechagnomes don’t really have much experience of races with different skin colours, it’s a weird thing to set up for him. It also contradicts the natural gnome curiosity to learn about that which they don’t. So my point is, why would I do it unless I really wanted him to be racist?

Because i’ll say it again, people don’t just randomly go “I don’t like gay people” without knowing what a gay person is or having any exposure to the concept, it doesn’t happen. Usually they’re exposed to someone who doesn’t like them, some kind of interaction/stereotype or something that fuels the dislike. WoW lacks these “fuels” because the topic isn’t discussed.

The only way it would happen in my eyes is a character sees lots of opposite-sex couples and then sees a same-sex couple and goes “whoa that’s different, I don’t like it”. As said however, without any other influences (like the same-sex couple being aggressive towards the viewer) it’s just frankly implausible for someone to go “it’s different, therefore I don’t like it” especially if the party in question is being perfectly pleasant towards the viewer.

So like it requires a literal museum’s worth of scaffolding to make it even remotely close to being something the character might acquire which is a ridiculously large backstory investment to justify something that adds nothing truly remarkable to the character. So i’d question the basis it’s there at all on that, because it would tell me the person really really wanted to make their character homophobic, and i’d wonder why.

Well, I think I could find a lot of non convoluted reasons for it to exist! But since it’s not a character trait I’m interested in roleplaying at all, I won’t bother!

It wouldn’t be fun to me, and doubt anyone I’d like to RP with would enjoy it, so I don’t really care to defend it! I’m just a big proponent of keeping IC and OOC separate!

tbh all this sexual identity energy on both sides of the fence should be redirected to the well established, canonized and fully functional aspect of this setting

That being genocidal racism

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'ate humans
'ate Dalaran
'ate night elves
'ate death knights

Not racist, just don’t like em’

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This is just it though, it has a (across factions) well established precedent in Azeroth, so why on earth not refer to that rather than going to ginormous lengths to make the reason your character 'ates members of their own faction or even race with different skin colours or sexualities sound vaguely plausible?

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I remember people muttering about “coalskins” when they met DiD dwarves IC.

I’m fairly certain that the skin-colour of the DiD was -not- the reason for bad blood between them in the past.

Yes, WoW gives us plenty of reasons why races dislike each other, but skin colour is not really one of them. I think the closest example of that is mag’har being somewhat distrustful of green skin orcs initially in TBC, and for a bit of the start of WoD, but that completely vanished by the end of each expo so as to not seen a problem. I mean mag’har had no problem interacting with green skinned orcs in WOTLK.

And the issues from that largely stem from the fact their green skin was associated with fel corruption by the mag’har rather than “waaargh it’s different wtf”, the fact mag’har have various skin colours whom have no problem interacting reinforces this fact as well.

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Its still a completely fitting derogatory term tbh, you dont need some deepseated hatred for a particular color to use the word as a slur against someone who might have wiped out your family, cursed your home, enslaved your friends and blew off half your face with mining charges

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True, but in the cases I saw, it was legit just about them having darker skin. The same characters also made some comments about brown humans or slightly-tanned dwarves in similiar manner.

Humans were in early warcraft(wc3) called pink-skin too by the Tauren, but there was no hatred behind it as much as “What are these things?”

And once they knew they were called human, they didnt say it anymore.

In this respect it will be interesting to see what SL brings in terms of how players handle the new customization as we frequently see the “waaah but the lore!” stuff, especially around belf. I know myself I will be making a couple of my gnomes dark-skinned because one of them was in vanilla and WoD totally whitewashed him so he now looks jaundiced instead.

I think( or hope) that most people will just roll with it and that the fuss that’s been kicked up on the forums about this are the people who just call litterally anything new made to any game as “pandering to the SJW’s” and then just go quiet and mutter about it elsewhere.

But we’re probably going to see some of it flood into RP too, but then it will also help showcase which people to avoid in the future.

I wouldnt get to fussed over this one. DI’s and Bronzebeards have a history full of grim war and confflicts. Before Dark Irons joined the Alliance other dwarves had right to hate \ distrust them, and its clear people had to come out with some name. Coalskin, flamebeards, fireyes or w\e isnt to big of a deal for me. Though anyone who does it purely for the sake of laughing at Di’s skin is a plain out idiot with some not so cool OOC background

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That’s fair yeah, and an overall good point!

Have a :blue_heart: until my stock has replenished in like 2 hours.

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A better example is orcs in Orgrimmar initially being unaccepting of / staring suspiciously at Garrosh because he’s brown! It’s from his leader story iirc!

Also there are examples of humans name calling orcs as “green skins” and vice versa as “pink skins” !

I’d argue that’s purely descriptive rather than suggesting any form of racism due to skin tones alone. Orcs also called Humans “Small teeth” for example.

I’m guessing you’re responding to the second paragraph, since the Garrosh example in the first paragraph is clear example of skin tone based racism!

Skin tone racism among fantasy races is allowed but not among humans for…honestly kinda obvious reasons.

Racism is rampant in WoW lore. Goblin means parasite in Draenic, Krokul are pretty much used as labour slaves in the Exodar. The Kaldorei-Highborne-Shaldorei tango is self-evident. Dark Iron Dwarves are discriminated against due to shadowy past, but on the surface due to simple difference in looks. Not even speaking of racism against void elves.

It just isn’t the racism that we have IRL; which should be adhered to in-character. A Draenei acting fully racist towards void elves is very far from one human attacking another due to character skin colour.

Well if Blizzard decided to make it canon, maybe then! But honestly my take for Warcraft humans is that the diversity has always been canon, since Vanilla at least! Was a customization option back then too! If anyone searches my post history they’ll see my take on it in the thread regarding that matter!