I agree with the point about mentioning sexuality in the TRP. No idea why the addons made it (and why’re they keeping the lust slider, but that’s another topic) and I wish people stopped using it altogether. Both the heterosexual and homosexual characters.
4 Likes
Roughly half of my characters are various LGBT oriented, but I personally have never gone out of my way to tell people much about it in conversation because it feels a bit odd. Same goes for my straight characters — the kind of guy bragging about how many women he’s banged in RP is incredibly 
to look at.
The characters’ sexuality has only ever been relevant to the intended people when a spark was formed between them, and it takes a lot of effort these days to reach that point, because I have zero interest in the OOC drama.
5 Likes
I understand it. If your queerness is important to your OOC identity - which it is for many queer people - then you might clearly display it on your character because you want them to partly represent you.
I don’t and wouldn’t, because I don’t put much stock in my sexuality, but I would be extremely careful about not equating sexuality and fetishes.
This would be a legit argument.
If not for the fact that too many people let their characters ingame class or race be their only personality trait.
If it’s an additional trait, sure, nice.
If it’s all what the character is then I am slightly 
.
Yeah, most my characters are gay, but not really because I want to do romance RP with dudes. It’s just what I naturally default to, just as someone else would default to straight without thinking about it. I find romance RP in general a little cringe, but I’d feel weird playing a straight character because it would feel like the character is a little less mine, you know? We put more of ourselves in our characters than we tend to admit; it’s like how I can’t play a female character.
3 Likes
There are plenty of straight characters out there who act as they do for their husband or wife. Perhaps there’s some sort of future goal that the characters wish to achieve, or perhaps there’s something in the present that they feel as if they need to address or overcome.
That degree of character relationship where the RP or motivation centres heavily around another character could arguably be seen as a character defined by their orientation - and in instances like that, be the character(s) straight, gay, bi, ace, or any other orientation, I would definitely say it’s valid.
It is a shame, sometimes, to see LGBT+ characters just acting really thirsty, but this isn’t just an LGBT+ problem. I’ve had lustful characters who blatantly want a very specific, uncomfortable thing from Obahar, from both genders and a manner of different sexualities, and it doesn’t matter which they are, because when it does get into that territory it’s uncomfortable all the same.
The way I see it historic details that allude to sexuality are within the spirit of a TRP (given TRP seems to be either stuff you can work out from a glance or providing a background story) but legit just putting in the sexuality whatever it is can be jarring.
In the glance section it makes no sense, because you can’t deduce sexuality from a glance, so it screams “i’m playing a caricature”
In the history section, why not just refer to it within the context of the history? I mean i don’t see this as a major offence, but i’d rather histories (where they’re present) tell me about what a character has done, who they’ve met, what their relationships were, rather than giving me generic details devoid of context (ie He is straight, like, is this necessary if their history mentions them having relationships within only women? Do we really need a “be all and end all” label on it?)
This is not LGBT specific though, I just find any direct references to sexuality outside of the context in which it is relevant (aka partners, children, relationships) is just odd, but that may just be me.
“Zugzug for the longest time shared a tent with his longest childhood friend, a young male by name of Kekek, over time their relationship developed into a deep and meaningful, romantic love.”
thumbs up from me
Zugzug is gay/straight
Eeehhh this is RP, probably slightly more creative ways to put it
3 Likes
I’ve never been able to play a male character properly. I just… can’t make it work.
Heh, my only gay character (Anna/Malheur) is actually married to a man. Long story.
1 Like
I am unsure how healthy this is for roleplay in general. Self-insertion seldom is; though ironically most of us self-insert at least a minimal amount to whatever characters we create.
You can reason that “I would not mention this for straight players playing straight characters” but that is mostly untrue. The majority of straight players roleplay asexual / aromantic characters where the identity is either wholly irrelevant or just a background line.
Remember that the core issue here is that we suspect many of the ICly homophobic characters are just extensions of homophobic/bigot players in a similar self-inserted way. I won’t equate the two sides because one dispenses abuse and the other suffers it. Though neither is good roleplay practice which is the reason I’d be averse to interact with either.
My experience to try and roleplay with lesbian characters:
- I approach
- They make some really dismissive comment in character and leave
- To either talk to some other female character or walk around in circles for the next 3 hours
No diss, but all lesbian characters I have encountered so far were a 
.
If the sexuality of a character is a trait of them, then I am in. Hell yeah. If it’s the only defining feature then I think that’s just boring.
Also the characters that are out for ERP only is a yikes from me.
3 Likes
Basically there is no lore reason for Homophobia to exist. The reason it exists in our world? We -Invented- our own lore reason for it. All those ancient shamanic, tribal and clan cultures? They didn’t bat an eyelid at it, then the Egyptians, well, they were into everything, the Ancient Greeks, including those macho macho Spartans were totally into same sex relationships, in fact it was encouraged. The Romans too had a very laissez faire attitude to it, you were expected by duty to continue the family line, as bloodline was massively important to the Romans, but if you took a lover of the same sex on the side this was totally acceptable. One was Duty, the Other was Pleasure. It was never promoted as a lifestyle choice, unlike the Spartans, but it was just shrugged at, who cared, there were Barbarians to conquer, big burly hairy savage tribes who also did not think it weird and odd if two men lay together.
Enter the Abramaic Religions full of “X is Sin!” “Thou Shalt Not!” and “You go to Hell if you do it”
Until then everyone was just happily murdering each other for other reasons, never homophobia.
So then we have a period where those religions, which took massive control of every aspect of our lives, as a species spent pretty much two thousand years telling us why it was wicked, depraved and terrible, and the damage is done to this day. I’m not bashing those Religions as a concept, it has led to some wonderful things, a source of strength to some, the promulgation of knowledge and education, and acts of such selfless goodness that it cannot be labelled as a ‘bad thing’, but it did shape our views on same sex relationships, as all three said it was -bad-.
Now what that has to do with Azeroth is this. Given that Homophobia is not an inherent trait to humanity, but an inculcated one, there would have to be a cultural imperative for characters in Azeroth to be homophobic. Most of the cultures of Azeroth are based on cultural paradigms, such as shamanism and Voodoo that just don’t encourage Homophobia, the closest thing to ‘The Church’ is the Holy Light, and nowhere do we get any indication that the Faith of the Holy Light regards same sex relationships as an abhorrent thing.
So where on Azeroth would a character get such an idea as Homophobia? Where would the thousands of years of being told it was sinful come from?
It wouldn’t. Ergo it just wouldn’t exist in Azeroth.
I always maintain that the essence of Roleplay is just that, Playing a Role in the Setting.
The setting does not have Homophobia or (unlike our world) any reason why it was -ever- a thing.
So are you -really- roleplaying accurately, if you are trying to incorporate elements that don’t exist in the setting?.
Doesn’t mean every character has to fancy everyone, same as you don’t automatically fancy every woman if you are a heteronormative male, or every man if you are a heteronormative woman. Brigante for example just isn’t into males, but he doesn’t regard it as weird if two males are romantically together, its just not his cup of tea, but he has no -reason- to ever have thought it to be a ‘wrong’ thing.
The same really, is true of every character on Azeroth…
2 Likes
Big disagree. There’s a reason someone will naturally default to “probably straight”; because, as people have pointed out, we are our characters (to an extent). They will have different personalities and traits to us, but we still inhabit them, and there are natural pieces of ourselves that will always seep into them. It isn’t fair, and a little yikes, to suggest most straight characters are basically asexual, whilst having a gay character as a gay person is self-insert. Being uninterested in romance RP doesn’t make a character asexual; a lot of straight + queer characters with have in-background or off-screen partners.
Me and Witherwell are both LGBT, but there’s where the similarities end. Me and Mogi are, but Mogi and Witherwell are nothing alike. It’s just a baseline I default to, and I disagree it’s because of a need to self-insert. It’s a bit of a weird double standard.
1 Like
Characters do not exist outside of the context of the people who create them. If I stop writing about Starshade, he literally ceases to exist. I write every word he says, and every action he takes. Of course he represents me to some degree or another.
The majority of straight players roleplay asexual / aromantic characters where the identity is either wholly irrelevant or just a background line.
This is because the sexuality of straight[/cis/allo] people is rarely, if ever, an important part of their identity - because it is treated as the default. This is not the case for queer people, who have their sexuality constantly called attention to as a deviation from the norm.
I am not convinced I am the one equating things here. The problem is not that people are bringing their OOC views into their characters, because that is inevitable and value-neutral - it is that they are bringing harmful ones in.
2 Likes
Incidentally this is something i’ve never had issues with - it varies wildly. I’m a straight man yet I play and have always played a mixed roster of male and female character because I tend to like variety.
And although most my character default to the generic “assumed straight but basically non-sexually active” many presumbely straight people do (where their sexuality just doesn’t seem to come up at all) one of my very early character who I made in vanilla and one of my very first roleplaying characters (the infamous dark-skinned Gnome mage i’ve mentioned once or twice) is and always was a gay character, it just seemed to be work with him.
Suffice to say it was never a major part of his character in so much as I actively sought relationships (I tend to avoid that kind of thing tbh) but it was a foundational part of his character history (in that he’d had an extremely long relationship with another male gnome where they originally wokred and invented together and it blossomed into something altogether profound/romantic based upon their mutual admiration of each other, i stay away from physical stuff) and an incidental part of his character; in so much as it would come up if anyone ever asked about family/kids etc.
3 Likes
That is an approach that should be minimized. Because the more you are your character, the more you will be hurt by an insult or slight on them. This isn’t only a reference to sexuality; it is also applicable to political views, opinions, personality traits, hobbies, etc.
But it’s how it is. Most characters I interact with have no partner referenced in their background, no sexuality mentioned or roleplayed. The just “exist” without it all. That’s the “empty state” to say. They mark “no” for interested in character romance and don’t engage in it. That’s asexuality.
The one who encouraged straight people to play LGBTQ+ characters was also right. Because it’s an eye-opening experience both with regards to a certain insight into homophobia-light, as well as novel experience.
Self-insertion to a degree. I don’t deny I’m not self-inserting either. I’m a straight male working in finance and somehow my most-played characters always end up being wicked old witches. There’s likely some underlying point there that could be explored one day.
That does not mean that you could not create Starshade 2.0 and roleplay him with a completely different shuffle of traits. The way to see what you usually self-insert into your characters is to check 4-5 characters you roleplayed for lengthier time and see the common ground.
Does that mean it has to be brought over to a roleplay platform? Must all people whose identity is fused with religion roleplay religious figures (I know they do; I have seen many pseudo-Catholic churches established in roleplay worlds). Does a nationalist always roleplay nationalist characters?
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. What I was meaning to write is that I will not say that homophobes and LGBTQ+ players are equally at fault (because one dispenses abuse and the other suffers it).
I think that post above shows a clear misunderstanding/ignorance of existing as a queer person in a straight-dominated space (I.E, WoW). I feel any further discussion on the subject wouldn’t really be that fruitful.
2 Likes
Personal opinion, in my opinion.
That’s what I am saying, basically. Everyone brings something of themselves into every character they make, and every other piece of art they create - so-called Second Life/self-insert roleplayers are a matter of degree, not presence vs absence.
I don’t have all of Starshade’s traits or vice versa (I can’t teleport, yet) but it would be completely wrong to suggest that me, Alex, being a straight white cis man [as well as other parts of my identity, like being from England and having mental illness - this isn’t exclusive] didn’t inform my choice to create Starshade and write him as I do - because his existence is entirely dependant on me.
Does it mean that it shouldn’t? I do not think you want to be putting yourself in a position where you are defending the idea that marginalised people should not display their identity.
Yes - for example, Warcraft is explicitly created in a lens of white liberalism, because it is almost exclusively created by white straight cis liberals.
Not necessarily, but all art they create will be influenced by nationalism - including any character they choose to roleplay.
1 Like
I get where you’re coming from here, but I don’t think that completely dissociating from your character, or making them as contrary to your values as possible is some sort of roleplayer virtue to strive for; there are many topics and themes that I get upset about OOC, and introducing them to my character just to steer away from self-insertdom would just make my RP time less enjoyable.
This notion of “IC and OOC are completely separate” is partially what allows people to excuse including really yikes-worthy/tone-deaf/inconsiderate elements to their RP - “if you’re offended at what my character said to yours, you’re just self-inserting too much”.
3 Likes
Since people are bringing up that there are no lore reasons for homophobia to exist I was wondering if there even is an example of homosexuality within the lore? I’m kind of drawing a blank right now on any canon example.