I suspect there are a few LGBT characters who aren’t ‘out’ but are creator headcanon - similar to how Velma in Scooby Doo was recently stated to have been gay but couldn’t be shown as such for various reasons.
but of course blizzard doesn’t get points for theoretically queer people
I suppose so, but I also got some of the same vibes that JK Rowling gave off with “We have established Dumbledore as gay and as a result do not need to show that he’s gay on-screen”, and this was at a point where she wasn’t the massive joke to the world that she is today. But then:
This is probably true but I’d still wish they’d say which ones had that influence in.
Still, ultimately it’s better late than never, but I don’t think it’s worth giving credit for representation that is implied or suggested.
When’re they gonna confirm Bi-Anduin already?
It’s not like it would even ruin any ships. It’d sail them!
then when she had the chance to show him as gay in her dumb fantastic beasts movie they went out of their way to no-h0mo him with weird magical mcguffin stuff. Very “”“cool”“” Joanne.
Yeah, I’ll agree with Rainwatcher on this.
Do they need to be overt and spelled out to be valid?
I have always assumed they exist in the universe. No one can tell nor prove to me otherwise.
For the sake of in-universe purposes, no, of course not. If homosexuality and different gender identities are accepted on Azeroth then yeah, showing it as something special would be a little strange.
But at the same time, for the purpose of us as an audience, having something a little more substantial than implication might be nice, which, granted, is what Blizzard are doing in Shadowlands with some of the things we’ve seen so far. And I do commend and applaud them for that. I guess it just irks me to see a statement that, to me at least, says “Yeah, we’ve always had these sorts of characters” when the evidence to support so is lacklustre.
Still, with Shadowlands they are blowing the lid off of representation after a long time of not really showing it, so more same sex couples and non-cisgender characters being a thing down the line, or existing characters getting confirmation of a different identity? I’m all for that and I hope Blizzard do just that.
Also I apologise if I’m rambling somewhat.
I can get behind more representation, I just hope they don’t blow it out of the water.
What I mean with that, without trying to seem bigoted is, this is a fantasy setting that many of use as a form of escape, or an alternate world to get immersed in - and being X or Y or Z should never be a pivotal plot point around any given character [save for the obvious race thing [but not a race thing, since it’s orc/human/troll/dwarf and not the real world counterparts]].
Maybe I’m not seeing things through the same lenses as others, but I’ve never seen a character’s orientation playing a major part in… anything in this universe. Well… maybe earlier on in the game-cycle, but they have [afaik] been weaseled out.
You should consider the number of heter0 relationships that are front and centre - Tyrande and Malfurion. Jaina and Arthas. Jaina and Kael. Jaina and Kalec. Thrall and Aggra (they even got an entire wedding scene in game!). Emperor Thaurissan and Moira. Alexstrasza and Krasus. Vereesa and Rhonin. Alleria and Turalyon. More recently, Sylvanas and Nathanos. Genn and Mia. And a whole bunch more that I’ve skipped over no doubt.
All of these have varying importance but all inform the characters and their interactions - Tyrande and Malfurion’s love is a constant force, Vereesa’s loss of Rhonin driving her to madness. Arthas’ affection for Jaina holding strong even to the very end of his undeath.
You probably won’t have even noticed, for the most part, that they’re so “front and centre” because it’s normalised, while it isn’t - yet - for LGBT characters, but make no mistake that those I’ve listed, their orientation has played (and continues to play, in a number of cases) crucial roles in defining their character and history.
The line between representation and fan service can be a bit of a blurred one, and also gets drawn in different places by different people, so I understand.
I guess for the sake of in-universe purposes it doesn’t really have an impact. But it’s more for the players than the characters. Flynn and Shaw from an in-universe perspective isn’t really a big deal or a shock of any sorts, but from a player perspective, it’s affirmation to the LGBTQ+ community, and especially to people questioning if what they’re feeling towards a same-sex person is valid.
Oh yeah, for sure. I guess my weird vague point is, the lead up to these unions/events [with regards to the individual characters] hasn’t been: “god im so straight. im straight…”
And whilst, yes, this can be boiled down to such heter0 unions/marriages being the defacto norm in what is perceived to be societies eyes, doing the opposite for same-gender unions just seems… cheap.
Edit: @Obahar
Yeah, Flynn + Shaw is great. I particularly [dis]like it because it wasn’t really built up at all. It sort of just happened, as many relationships do. The [dis] part of that stemmed from virtually no vaguely flirtatious dialogue between them, but I will admit… I didn’t do a lot of island expos + and the same time, a lot of what finalised the sparks may have happened off screen. Neither of the characters, however, had their history littered with how non-heter0 they are. And I will say the same about any character that does have that as their recurring, primary point of reference in their story - lore-toon or not.
tbh flynn + shaw had a few interactions on screen (the dazar’alor heists iirc) where they pmuch fulfil the opposites attract/friends-to-lovers fanfic trope
and they can easily add to it because their everyday interactions probably would be hard to show in-game anyway whereas easily done in a book
flynn + shaw is way more built up than anduin’s 'woah i crazily love draenei hooves now 
’ because hello, wranduin is right there??
They’re obviously setting up for an Anduin x Velen ship.
I had the misfortune of thinking this and now you have the misfortune of reading it, don’t @ me.
hm 19 year old x what, 100k year old or however old velen is by now 
Yeah, you’re right actually.
I think I’m blanking it out, along with the rest of the Alliance storyline, because I skipped through everything/turned my brain onto autopilot…
I did the storyline once, forgot it all, and only followed addon arrows next for the Alliance side.
's a snooze what can i say, even the most of flynn i can remember is his escort quest because it was too annoying
On the topic of trans representation I always kind of thought that even if Chromie started out as an accident, they easily could have retconned the name. But they never did. And outside of people asking about it I don’t remember Blizzard ever talking much about it either. Chromie is just Chromie and that’s it. Which personally I think is really good.
And yes, you can argue that it’s still pretty hidden to anyone not familiar with dragon naming conventions but are we going to shun it because of that?
More LGBT+ and more sooner of this would have been nice tho. But I guess we’re getting there.
Blizzard in general doesn´t seem to be so hellbent on adhering to stuff RPers and lore nerds see as hard canon and dragons are one of these cases. There are many of them who don´t follow their naming conventions at all (there´s blue drake in Azurewing Repose whose name ends with -us, for example).
So I wouldn´t see Blizzard not retconning her name as some indirect proof of her being trans character just because she doesn´t follow vague naming conventions.
They even edited the post about you getting “kicked” from PCU for not allowing yourself to be brainwashed by Dear Leader.
You either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain.
You made me want to play the witcher 3 again.
Arygos appeared as a female gnome, but was a male dragon. Sure they turned evil, but still they were there.
don’t forget he wanted to bone his dwarf bodyguard from the Shattering novel
speaking of bones you wanna know what didn’t show up at all in the new novel?
that’s right, anduin’s magic bones.
“Hey Draenei are attractive, this dwarf lass is too” hardly equals crazily pining for a draenei.
Wrathion + Anduin = good
Anduin + Velen = bad
:confused_noises:
Atleast Anduin and Velen are both 18+, how old was Wrathion again?
I thought Chromie was a male?
Shadow’s Rising was a god’s gift compared to some of the earlier works. No magic bones.