the way sharding works currently I don’t agree that is the right way to do it as the “risk” is not really there as long as you decide to join a group for the quests in a shard your faction dominates or being in a shard your faction dominates and as long as the risk is not there then the reward for said risk should not be there.
and removing said insitment for a person that dont want to PvP at all is great for War mode in general as then you only get people that want the risk for the risk and that might make the balance of the shards better(removing the reason for anyone to join WM for anything other then the risk of world PvP or killing some of the opposite faction), but as it is now everybody and their dog gains from joining WM, that is not really beneficial to WM in general.
I don’t agree with them being fun, it is nothing more than a choor, with how the sharding works currently then quest like CTA and AAO can’t be supported and still be fun, i for one don’t feel it is fun to roam as 5 people killing lonely players or being and the other end of the spectrum is just as bad, so the conquest is nice but the way to get it from the quest is bad.
now to fix the problems there are a few ways i can see, but removing the rewards and quests are the one with least impact on the sharding tech and would take the least amount of work to implement, now fixing the sharding tech would be the better option but that most likely is going to cost a raid tier so i pick the option that removes the least fun for me as i also like raiding then a fix that don’t cost a raid tier is better than one that does
It’s true that sometimes a shard can be in your favour, but overall WM on is expected to be slower to progress in PvE than WM off. The extra bonus compensates on average for lost time at the gy. From what I’ve observed, most WM on PvEers are soloing, and the bonus probably works out about right for them, on average.
Variety of motivation for WM on is good. Creates conflict situations. For example, Horde 120s visiting Redridge to quest with WM on, thinking it’s going to be easy, but finding Alliance 120s there. That’s an interesting situation. I want more of that.
Shards are balanced better the more that turn on WM, of both factions equally if possible. If less turn on WM, it would be harder to balance shards. That’s why the bonus is there.
Well ofc fun is subjective. I find non PvP quests a chore, I just avoid them. For me, I am a social PvPer, and from that point of view, being in a kill party is a lot of fun and laughs.
Remove rewards and quests = probably kill War Mode. Why remove PvP aspects, to benefit PvE? Makes no sense at all.
I think the sharding tech is prb doing its best to balance. It’s quite a complicated situation: people logging in and out, people entering zone and leaving, joining/leaving instances, groups forming and disbanding, player distribution in a zone. It’s all working pretty good considering, I kinda doubt there’s much room for improvement except for equalizing the region factions in WM somehow.
a lot of people are soloing when possible, the bonus does not really work for it and should not even be part of it to start with, as all it does is make the kind of mess we have today.
in an ideal word true but guess what we don’t live in an ideal world and given that people generally take the path of least resistance and what gives the most having that being the same mode is not really smart, that is what sharding does, makes WM the path of least resistance with the highest rewards.
removing the rewards(the x%), would remove the people that do not what the PVP to be possible to start with but does it for the reward.
now removing the current CTA and AAO would make it less like a group of 5 going to kill the random and repeat and from my point of view that is not interesting game play, instead you would have people going about their day and there might be some of the other faction you attack and that gets to a fight and that might evolve or not but it is more fluid and natural instead of “forced”.
the tech might do the best it can but it is not really working in my opinion, if it was working then you would not really have so many unbalanced shards, heck i have been on shards that were dominated by ally and the joined a group gotten to a shard dominated by horde the most logical solution would be mixing those two shards to fix the balancing but it does not, so the current way is not good enough with quests like CTA and AAO so in my opinion the optimal options are removing the quest or fixing the shading tech, now the fixing of the tech compared to removing the quest is a hell lot of work, and given when something needs a lot of work blizzard normally says it would cost a raid tier and i don’t want to loss the raid tier so removing the quests are the logical option from my standpoint
On average it compensates for time loss due to pvp, that’s a good thing.
It’s up to the players that WM on for PvP reasons to make it NOT the path of least resistance for PvEers. That bonus should be earned with extra gy walks. That’s my approach to WPvP anyway.
They don’t need to be removed though. The variety of motivations is part of what makes WM interesting.
I just avoid things I don’t find interesting. I like the PvP quests, and ‘natural’ WPvP. There’s plenty of both.
If there’s PvP activity in WM, regardless of the reasons, what’s the issue?
On my old PvP realm in Legion, the problem was, VERY limited WPvP happening. Even without bonus, most players seemed to be PvEing in zones.
In terms of PvE/WPvPer ratios - I feel in BfA WM it has actually improved versus PvP realms, because of sharding.
PvP activity happening is what matters. Some of it’s quest, some of it’s ‘natural’, good variety. I avoid PvE, so getting a PvP quest is good for my progress. Why should I lose that because of PvEers in a PvP mode?
Ye, I get it, different opinions hehe!
I’m seeing it from the point of view of I enjoy WM.
PvP Quests = Fun, and necessary for those that avoid PvE.
Random WPvP happening = Fun.
Defending lowbies = Fun.
WPvPing with guild/community = Fun.
PvE = Boring, but glad it’s there, because it creates conflict situations. Different motivations colliding!
I’m not too bothered about the sharding. It works well enough for WPvP. Outnumbered? I’d try to group up and retaliate. Outnumberer? Try to dominate the zone. Fun!
it would be great if the sharding and how it is possible to totally dominate shards because of it and how it seems to be happening
WM is for the risk(at least that was how it was advertised).
now i understand the reasoning with getting something extra, the problem is how it affects the game, again that problem stems from how sharding works and how you are placed in a shard with the LFG tool.
it forces people into the mode that don’t really wants to be there that is bad game design even if you like it or not it is still bad design.
the motivation should to some degree revolve around pvp or having the option for pvp, not the x% increased reward.
has little to no relevance to what i said tho but good for you I do the same, the PvP quest does not add anything to the game other than bad stuff with how the game is currently at least that is how i see it and you really need to bring out some kind of argument for how it does improve the gameplay in a realistik setting to convince me otherwise.
what is happening is not really what I see as PvP, it is nothing more then a group of 5 griefing players, I personally don’t find that fun ofc there might be some that do, but i don’t think it is anything but bad game design when something promots griefing and with how sharding/LFG tool and the quest works in combination that is what it does. now fixing how sharding/LFG tool works would be a fix or removing the quest would fix this.
sharding is not really what improved it, pooling the pvp realms together would fix that and that is what has happened instead of forcing people that dont want to PvP on to PvP realms to play with guildies and/or friends.
sharding and how it works now is not really helping WM, the problem was how bad the PvP realms was in the end because of faction balance and forced people not wanting to PvP into the realms made it.
the quests removal is not because of people not wanting to pvp being forced into WM but the griefing that is made possible because of how shading works with the LFG tool, that would be the removal of the bonus that would be because of pve players being forced into WM, there is a difference.
oh i generally also enjoy WM, does not mean that improving it would not make it better and that is what i want, I want it improved.
might be but they could be made in a different way to not promote griefing the way it does now
don’t really have a problem with that happening it is part of WM and should always be
can be sometimes.
it can be fun true but the way sharding and LFG works now it makes it a lot more difficult than it should be other then attacking capitals.
that is where i have the problem with a fex fixes to how sharding/LFG tool works it would make it more balanced(balanced here is about ratio of players from each faction you see around the world when moving around)
and if you read what i have written then you would see that what i’m against is the griefing that gamepaly promots with the help of the LFG tool/sharding, now fixing the later is a hell lot more work then just remove it and given how blizzard always says doing stuff like that cost a raid tier, i would prefore removal of the quest compared to loss of a raid tier, if it would cost nothing i would prefore the fixing of the shardin/LFG tool
either turn off wm or open lfg tool to get into another shard. you got 2 options and call to arms quest should be doable as party. idc if you dont have friends, your options are there if you dont like meeting a cta party.
and you don’t understand what i’m saying, i’m not saying it is not doable i’m saying the way it works now is not really fun(9 times out of 10), there is a major difference. with the way LFG/sharding work now I don’t think that CTA is good for the game, does not mean that with a fix to the sharding or LFG tool in particular CTA could be great, but that said fix would most likely cost something else and that something is not worth losing compared to just remove the CTA. I think that a removal would improve WM compared to loss a raid tier to improve the LFG to WM.
tl:dr. my problem is not with CTA it is with sharding/LFG fixing LFG then CTA could be great. chances are the cost to fix it is something I dont agree with thou so a removal would be better.
cta is basicly same with ashran race kill quest. doable in groups. wm is the most stupid thing implemented and should revert back to pvp/pve server types.
sharding/lfg isnt a problem. the problem is people not using the system in a smart way. if i went to vale and there is 1000 alliance players there, i would go to lfg to get into another shard. i dont see that as a problem.
removing cta would just make you do more bgs/arena/assassult for cap. you lose time maybe but nothing ingame
with changes to the LFG you could avoid having the 1000 alliance/horde dominated shard but having the semi equal, now removing the x% bonus would then make WM do what it advertised and that is get the people not wanting to PvP out of PvP-server(now WM).
that imbalance should not happen in the first place in my opinion and given the LFG tool is one of the major sinners in making that happen fixing that would be a great start, but the cost might be a raid tier and i don’t really feel that is worth it when removing CTA has a very good chance of bringing the same about(with the remove of the X% increase to) so that is why i think that is the smarter move.
I did the quests this week - it was nothing but fun. And we had plenty of fighting back, where these “solo” players we killed came back with friends, sometimes with more friends we could handle, completely owning us as a result.
It was actually a lot of fun, and thanks to these Quests we met more people in game, and actually made new friends.
As someone already said:
NO ONE is being forced into War Mode. There is a button to disable it. And you can disable it in any area that gives “Rested” bonus.
There is a reason why it’s called a “War Mode”. It’s not “Safe PVP playground mode”, it’s not “completely fair PVP mode” - it’s called a “war mode” for a reason.
It’s not meant to be fair or safe. And it should be obvious to anyone enabling WarMode, that they will eventually get killed. It’s not a matter of “IF”, but “when”.
And you need to realise that when you Opt In
Do I hate shard imbalance - sure thing, it drives me nuts sometimes, that when a supply drop happens on my shard, as soon as you get to the drop location you will find a 40 man alliance raid waiting there. Thankfully we can make our own raid and fight. I remember doing just that in Nazjatar, and the result was epic - we ended up having an ongoing battle, that lasted for at least 30 minutes or longer, and nobody managed to tag the chest during that time. Both factions were close several times, but still… the battle raged on… I felt sad, I had to log off (had to take care of some RL stuff) and leave such a fun event.
I do the quest every week and how many people do i keep talking to after the quest? 0 so no new friends here,
now the only time it ever evolved into anything fun is some of the mechagone CTA or nazjitar ones but only some of them.
no pvp player was forced to raid ICC back in the day except if they wanted to be competitive(the one that gave the biggest impression on me not the only one that happened).
the problem is that the way it is now some are forced into warmode even if they don’t want to be there for the extra reward from it, now remove that reward then they are not forced to be in there(not that i would not still be in there)
forced is not someone pointing a gun to your head saying play that way, it is more about to be competitive or have your spec feel more complete you are forced in there, that should not be there.
i have never said war mode should be safe heck what i want is to make it more unsafe and balancing(number wise) the shard so none dominates them will make them more unsafe for everyone.
that is a matter of opinion and how you choose to describe greifing, but true there is close to no griefing after the terms of conduct, but that is not really how i have set it in this setting and i also described how i set it op and there it fits.
now if they request pvp or not is a different matter and i can’t answer that and you can’t say that as you don’t know as you can only talk for youself.
and with that line of though you could also change it and basically do anything you want as that line is double edged going against you just as much as any other, so they could also make raid items bis for every spec and the only way to be competitive(as in you can’t kill anyone that has said item before you die 99 times out of a 100) is to raid, now deal with it as they can’t please everyone, or only make trinks and weapons drop in raids same line, see how that line is not really constructive at anything so let’s drop that if we are talking about improving the game(and i don’t want that to happen any more then the next person just using it as an example to make a point)
Because they currently get a PvE bonus that mitigates their time disadvantage versus WM off. You think they wouldn’t complain? Or just turn WM off without complaining, reducing the pool of WM players, and worsening shard balance?
There should be a good reason for making a change. Removing the bonus does not benefit WM, so why remove it?
There actually a lot of low iq horde players suggesting removal of WM bonus in order to fix imbalance on forums
or they are just trolling dunno because no sane person would suggest this. I’ve WM on since it got added to the game even I would turn it off if the bonus wasn’t there.
so i pick the option that removes the least fun for me as i also like raiding then a fix that don’t cost a raid tier is better than one that does
