It’s just flawed logic.
There’s a misconception that old PvP realms were pure PvP (they were not).
From that misconception, the argument is WM should be pure PvP.
And therefore PvEers should not WM on, and the ‘solution’ is remove PvE bonus.
Which is a pointless solution to a non-existent problem 
WM = PvE+PvP therefore PvEers are more than welcome!
Though, in game, I do my best to encourage Horde PvEers to turn WM off hehe. Like, how much do they really want that bonus?
don’t really agree there.
the WM was made to fix the old flaw in the pvp realms(people not wanting to PvP or have it part of the open world but being forced to play on the realms because of guildies or RL friends).
now if i remember right the PvP-realms did not offer any bonus at all to any player when they where there so why should WM offer any bonus, given people where still playing on the pvp realms back then.
not really, it uses the logic that the old pvp realms had no reward for playing on them and they were still used even before the server ratios whent to “bip”, so why would WM be any different when it is the replacement for the PvP realms, the improvement is that the people not wanting to PvP at all or in the open world are not forced to play on a realm/shard that has it enabled to play with their friends or guildies
never said they were and don’t believe wm should be(but from how you are responding im thinking you are, at least that is the impression i got from you)
it is not really a non-existing problem you don’t think it is a problem is a difference, just one thinking it is a problem is enough for it to be a problem(the question would be if the problem is big enough for blizzard to go in and fix it).
that is opperset of what you normally say, where you want anyone that play for pve to turn wm off.
but i agree anyone is welcome but it should be on equal grounds to wm-off shards, the rewards make it so it is not, there for people are being forced to put wm on even if they don’t want to have pvp happen¨.
i want it removed from both sides so very little i would argue 
Bonus was not required on PvP realms, because the act of logging in was participating. Because participation is now optional, the bonus encourages participation - the more that are in the pool of WM players, the easier to balance WM shards, and the better the WM experience.
When they are pure PvEers and turn WM on, yet complain about PvP - that is a WM off situation for sure hehe. It’s up to them ofc, but it’s good to PvP them for encouragement.
I’m sure plenty PvEers turn on WM and are happy to get a reward in exchange for some ‘risk’. They are wanted in WM, absolutely!
Bonus is optional, turning off WM removes it 
you could log into a realm that was PvE the problem was that your guildies or RL friends could be on that PvP realm, so WM made it so that did not happen but what happened with the people that started or wanted the pvp risk, they would still join WM, reward or not.
the pool should be people that are willing to join the risk of pvp not the guys not wanting it.
the removal of the reward would make that happen.
raiding back in wrath was also optional but to stand on equal ground as everyone else you HAD to raid , you remember the “bip” storm that was on the forum because of it.
so because it looks optional it does not mean that it truly is optional, with 10-30% increased rewards is not really optional(this late in the expansion with how the other systems work it might be optional now(as you don’t have the need for AP, gear or war resources) but with the reset of that in SL that is not the chase),
so no it is not optional it just looks like that, just like it looked like raiding was optional in late wrath but to be competitive in PvP you had to raid making it none optional to compete.
that is what i want removed, so if i want to play competitive pvp then i should not be forced to raid at the highest level or should not be forced to join WM to gain extra rewards to gain an edge.
removing the rewards would then remove the edge giving the option back to people
and a bigger pool of people is not always better, having a pool of people that want the risk is better then having people in the pool that do not want the risk.
By turning on WM, they accepted the risk. If they then complain about it, that’s not a WM issue, that’s a player issue.
Doesn’t really compare, WM is casual, rewards are minor.
Ye there’s quality over quantity, but people are complaining about unbalanced shards - a larger pool of players would provide better balance across more shards. Remove bonus, pool is smaller, worse shard balance, more WM off, chain reaction, till blizz pull the plug.
not really, if turning on WM gives an advantage over not turning it on then its a WM issue not a player issue no matter how you twist and turn it.
i don’t agree that a bigger pool is better, a pool of people wanting to do pvp or having the risk of pvp in the open world is better than having people that don’t really want to be there but are forced for the reward, so removing said reward would remove the once that don’t really want to be there leaving the pool to people that want to.
the way the LFG tool works now there can be no balance no matter the size of the pool, fixing the LFG tool or removing the reward would both be trying to fix the same problem.
and it does compare to the icc as it was the same scenario flipped on its head, nothing more.
Saying they are forced is bad choice of words. When they weigh up the consequences, and decide to do something because THEY WANT the advantage, DESPITE the consequence - that is not being forced. Forced is when something is happening against their will. In this situation, they chose to turn on WM for advantage. That was their will.
As for their presence in WM:
There’s a big variety of opinion on WPvP ethics, but these players can be fun to camp for those WPvPers that like doing that.
Remove bonus, the pool of players decreases significantly. This would increase the number of single faction overflow shards - in what way is that good for WM?
the same was the same with ICC(where blizzard where out saying that they did not want that to happen again), they wanted to have that trinket to do arena, they could choose not to get it, the problem was they then gave the other team an advantage as they had gotten it.
so from that line and blizzard’s response to that situation then it is fair to assume, they don’t want people in a mode they don’t really want to be in, so removing or reworking the rewards for turning on WM would be a logical step, a rework would change the reward so it would not impact any other aspect of the game(like not having to raid to be competitive in pvp(not that it succeeded this expansion))
that is assuming that the player pool decreases is screwed to one side, I don’t think it will be screwed heavily to one side, might be a lot more horde that turn it off as they dont get the extra reward for doing it making balancing easier(but that is just a guess based on there is more horde in wm in general), so that would be a good thing.
It’s already skewed to one side, hence the Alliance 30% bonus. Removing the bonus would worsen that situation.
In WM they are not getting a critical item that makes any real difference.
has little to do with what im talking about heck it is even supporting what im talking about, given there are more horde then there will also be more horde that turn it off if they get no reward.
currently true as we are at the end of the expansion with nothing really mattering anymore, but at the start of the patch a WM could run more visions then a person not using WM as they get 10-30% more of the currency from quests and events, that is a tangible reward that makes a difference for anyone wanting to run visions, just to name one thing in current patch.
and with that as evidence then it is safe to assume the same will happen in SL.
so to gain maximum reward then you would need to have WM on even if you don’t want to WM simply to get the limited amount of a currency or other resource to gain more of it, making WM-on forced, just like how it was for PvP players back in ICC during wrath, same situation just other actors(here it is forced to join WM, instead of being forced to join raids)
Ye but what actually is the problem?
for me the problem is the shard balance is screwed massively, there are people in WM that don’t really want to be there but feels forced by the reward.
that are the first two problems i would like addressed, the CTA quest does nothing for the shard balancing other then screw it even more to one or the other side, but that is mainly because of how LFG works, but i don’t think fixing the LFG is an easy fix and given that removing CTA would help to fix the problem i don’t see a reason why not removing as part of a fix to the balancing problem.
I do know WM should not be “fair” but having 5:1 or 1:5 ratios is not how it should be periode.
Well, you can hope Shadowlands War Mode has no bonus, PvP quests, LfG, shards, phasing, variable player distribution and motivations, etc.
I’d personally rather see them add more to WM, rather than take anything out.
to be fair most of it would be fixed if they changed how the LFG system worked and then removed the bonus reward from WM(or made it irrelewant so it only boosted stuff like xp and/or gold(that way it would still help making up time for people using it but would not screw up when people are at 60 and forcing people into WM))
think that is the way most people would be happy about it and the LFG fix should make it impossible to teleport people into a decently balanced shard, then i think balancing would be easier and get a better result with stuff like CTA and the like, the problem is the amount of work it takes.
I guess people that like bonus and LfG can do something else hehe.
by the same logic as that, i like to raid and pvp back in wrath and liked you need to also raid to gain anywhere in pvp, so by that logic it should stay like that.
not everything in the game as it is now is good for the game in the long run, why we talk up about it.
just like how they are stopping with titan forge and corruptions after people say a lot about it.
I liked leveling my unarmed fighting skills… they took it out 
it just goes to show that sometimes they take stuff out someone finds fun, to do what they think improves the game.
now if we say what we think would improve the game that or something in that direction may happen.
Yup, Blizz’ll figure out if WM actually needs changes. They have the usage data.
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