Horde PvP - A Summary

I don’t usually make threads but this made me start one. I know there’s a lot of threads already out there, but I feel they don’t quite capture the essence of it all, and they all derail into the “reroll Alliance” or “that’s what you get for OP racials” or “but Alliance gets ganked in open world, deal with it” kind of comments. So to start off, I want to say that yes, I do acknowledge all of those but let’s focus on the problem at hand, instead of constantly swapping the topic to something else in the same general area and laugh at all Horde complaining.

I also want to mention that this post isn’t only about my thoughts and opinions, but rather those observed on various threads on these forums, and then put together with my personal comments.

The "Issues"

**1) Horde Queues are looooong, as opposed to Alliance queues. Up to 2hrs vs instant **
The cause of this is obvious, however the damage is already done. No Racials change or some people quitting or rerolling will tip the scales, since you can’t force enough people to do that. And it’s only going to get worse as Alliance will start to play less once they get geared.

2) Premades
Alliance tend to premade a lot since queues are nearly instant. Can’t blame them, I’d do the same if I could. But on Horde, one can rarely hold a full team together for more than a couple BGs, and replacing members resets the queue, or at the very least prolongs it by ~30mins. This is discouraging to Horde players and there are far less, if any, premades running. This further slows down the already painful grind.

3) Gearing requires A LOT of Honor Already
To put this into perspective, I calculated that for my character, if gearing full pvp from scratch, I would need ~260k honor (I might be wrong, but let’s at least agree it’s over 200k). When playing BGs ~8hrs a day, I get about 2k honor from that, + the PvP dailies included. Of course this varies from player to player. For the purpose of the argument let’s say you can get 4k a day (which means spamming BG queues all the time, nothing else). That means 50 days (the “best case scenario”) of BG spamming for full honor gear. In my personal case, and I play about 5-8hrs a day, it would take me ~130 days. That is simply INSANE, as I am sure the new phase would release in the meantime, essentially “resetting” the grind. Worth mentioning that while farming this, you can’t really do many dungeons/be social unless you have people that can play all day with you or otherwise queue resets on grouping!

These 3 issues combined create a very difficult atmosphere for Horde in PvP. Not to mention it skews arena towards Alliance, as Horde can barely get the right gear to rank properly. But that’s a whole different can of worms…

This slow Honor grind would have been probably fine back in the day when the pace of the game in general was much slower, but requires some tweaking in today’s day and age, or it will be impossible to keep up in today’s “meta world” where people rush through content. It creates a giant inconsistency between PvE and PvP progression, but also Alliance vs Horde PvP progression to a point where it’s no longer a subjective matter.

PROPOSED SOLUTIONS
These are not my own solutions, but rather what I have seen float around on the forums and have personally found to be “good”, relatively objective ideas for a positive change.

1) Create Battlegroups of more or less equal ACTIVE Alliance/Horde PvPers.
This seems like a decent solution, but I do not have the statistics on these things so it might be a impossible task. But in itself, it doesn’t necessarily involve any non-TBC-like changes.

2) Give WotLK Racials to encourage more people to play PvP as Alliance.
Just putting this out there since it floats around: This would have probably been a good idea BEFORE the release. Now, it would only be a bandaid, and only if coupled with faction change so people actually get incentivized to reroll. Personally I think this would do more harm than good.

3) Mercenary mode
This, as in retail, allows people from one faction play as the other faction in BGs. While solving the issue at hand, it doesn’t really fit well into TBC by the opinions of many on these forums, and I agree to a certain extent. It breaks the immersion greatly, and essentially creates another problem after solving the initial one.

4) Same faction BGs
Alliance vs Horde would take priority whenever possible. But for the Horde waiting in queue, they would be able to join a Horde vs Horde match. That way, Alliance will never have to fight alongside Horde, and likely also never against other Alliance since Horde is the “dominant” faction regarding PvP population.
Personally I like this solution the best, or better as “the lesser of evils”. Lorewise it could be explained as “practice matches” (far fetched perhaps, but still better than mercenary mode), and it would definitely lower queue times for Horde.

5) Increase Honor gain for Horde
Simple; increase the Honor in proportion to queue times, so the gearing goes equally fast. This would probably net the same result as solutions 3 and 4, however it comes across as, at least in my mind, unfair towards Alliance that would have to grind only BGs all the time for the same Honor, while Horde would have the opportunity to farm mats or whatever in the open world while waiting for that 1BG that would net them the same as the Alliance would get for a lot more effort.

None of these solutions fit into the original TBC mentality. I know this, I’m sure we all know this. But strictly gameplay wise, something has to be done to at least mend this queue issue.

TL;DR There is no TL;DR, if I can sit 2hrs in a queue you can read this whole post and appreciate the effort behind it, if nothing else. Thanks :slight_smile:

30 Likes

I think the idea of a battlegroup is perfect, but it would still have an uneven balance and probably do not much for your queues.

The one solution I found most probable is adding the PvP gear to the reputation vendors. Both Horde and Alliance can reap the benefit of that, making you more likely to survive arena’s and Alliance will keep their fast queue advantage.

There has to be a solution that sticks to the core of TBC, without drastically changing anything. Maybe it is faction transfers, maybe it is just increasing honor gain.

2 Likes

“Just roll alliance, you clearly rolled horde because you’re a tryhard minmaxer!!!”

“Haha serves you right for that one time I got corpsecamped in phase 2! This is somehow karma!”

“Well Horde was winning most AV’s during Classic, so that means this is totally fair!”

etc etc

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Give us the option to pay for faction change :+1::+1::+1:

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“If you don’t wanna get killed by the horde in the open world, just reroll horde!”

“I only face premades, so unfair!”

“Game literally dead. Can’t PvP”

We both have crybabies on our sides, don’t make it one sided.

13 Likes

We just wanna be able to do that lil bg after work, or before going to bed.

We can’t access the pvp content.

We can’t be viable for arena casual matches… not to mention competitive.

Just an answer. A solution. Is all we ask for before this big chunk of the comunity is lost.

4 Likes

This was how this issue didn’t creep up so severely back in the days. Outside of faction changing or rerolling this would be the best solution. All your other ideas i disagree with and some just seem absurd.

Give us Paid Faction Change, and if even after that Faction Balance will be the same, then you can BLAME horde for rolling horde. Unless we have that, don’t blame us for wanting to keep our hundreds of hours invested in our characters, playing with our friends.

1 Like

All your “solutions” are not really solutions.

  1. Battlegroups will do nothing as there are way too many horde making battlegroups will just increase times as it will take longer to fill alliance slots so horde times will increase. I mean you already get all the Alliance players from pve servers which is a kick in teeth to horde on those servers you should thank them.

  2. probably your best “solution” but Bringing in another op racial is not the answer and will do nothing but make pvpers roll Alliance then we have the same problem again I understand not all would switch so it would help queues somewhat.

  3. Worst solution no thanks what does this do for alliance population how does this make servers healthy

  4. Almost as bad as 3. What does this do to make PvP servers healthy Alliance are still going to get grieved from a hugely unbalanced server I would honestly rather they do nothing at least long queues makes some players roll Alliance to balance out servers a bit.

  5. Another horrible “solution” how does this make more people willing to roll Alliance it solves no issues long queues still exists servers still hugely unbalanced your just adding incentive to roll horde because now you can get gear quickly while making money or corpse camping lowbies with no penalty.

1 Like

Try not to get the BG queue issue tangled up in another issue, like you are doing here.
The solutions posted by OP, has nothing to do with PvP server balance, but to do with lowering queue times while still keeping it fair for the alliance.

I do not disagree with the problem of PvP servers being dominated by horde, but that should be its own thread.

Personally I believe that solution 4, might be the best solution as the alliance wouldn’t be too affected by it. Also to be honest, it might help the outdoor experience of alliance, as the horde faction would resort to camping alliance to gain honor, as it’s impossible to gain through BG’s.

Hopefully Blizzard gives a respond soon, even if it means that their respond is that they wont change anything. Atleast then people can make an educated decision.

Thank you for your constructive thread OP.

2 Likes

Well for one I would re-roll horde if they added any of those solutions it’s too attractive to play the faction now and I wouldn’t like to be stuck on alliance which will now be a dead faction you have just made that server balance problem alot worse

May I add very selfish changes to benefit yourself at the expense of a suffering faction

It isnt a different issue you dense donkey. Horde has longer que times because they are the majority, horde has long que times because alliance cannot quest, horde has long que times because ally has less active AH

If you adress horde bg problem without adressing any of the other issues you are spitting on ally players faces. And unlike your mom i do not like being spit on.

5 Likes

Another change is cutting of brats without manners like yourself from the game and forums. Not only your reasoning doesn’t make any sense as i bet you wouldnt be so loudmothed in person. I reaaaallly bet on that. Shush, go pee and go to bed lil brat.

2 Likes

Really shows the mentallity of Alliance players here. Name calling is real progressive and solves all solutions.

Again as I mentioned (if you actually read the comment) I’m not saying that the other issues shouldn’t be resolved. Just that it’s its own issue with its own solutions.

If you actually believe that the solution to this is for a major part of the player base to quit, then I feel sorry for your very close minded thinking.

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Oh sorry the eots i had qued for 1 minute ago just popped, you can keep discussing this with your horde friends as you spend a cozy 40 minutes in shatt! Brb

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Ok you are just a troll.
I’ll ignore all posts from you.

Please be civil here, and yes I understand what you are trying to say but if you feel that Alliance being camped in PvP is an issue, either make a thread about it or should I provide you with an equally useless answer as you did here: “just play PvE servers then”. It doesn’t solve anything.

Saying that faction imbalance is a player created issue is correct. Saying faction imbalance is a player’s own fault and they have to deal with it is perhaps also correct, however it doesn’t have to be so. It is bad game design when one faction is at a disadvantage, so let’s provide constructive feedback to change this, instead of just throwing the argument “reroll” or “stop playing” from one side to another like it’s a game of hot potato.

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You think the horde are better I’ve had nothing but abusive horde on the forums the past few days because I think Merc mode and horde/horde are terrible for the game

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To be fair re-roll is a valid solution to the problem

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I’m not saying that horde are “better”.
I’m though responding to a very uncivil person, who shouldn’t be posting on forums, as he appears to just troll people.

Everyone should respond to people in a civilized manner, no matter the faction.