Horrible performances in raid and M+ with many packs

Support Technical Support
1

I have an Asus Zephyrus G14 (2021 version) with a Ryzen 9 5900HS and a RTX 3060 max-q, which SHOULD run the game properly.
I have all the last drivers, everything but even at low setting (even 1) I have constant fps drop when there are more than 4 mobs or animation on the screen, it’s really annoying.

My CPU/GPU doesn’t throttle (don’t go beyond 85°C maximum, it’s a laptop and this Ryzen starts to throttle from 95°C normally).

And I hope that even for a laptop this configuration is WAY enough to handle wow LOW SETTING in raid and M+ situation…

What’s going on Blizzard ?

3 Likes
2

AMD Ryzen 7 2700X Eight-Core Processor 3.70 GHz
32 gb G-Skill, RAM
GFORCE 1660ti SUPER - 6 GB RAM
Both my SSD and my Hard Drive are of quality too.
Both processor and graphics card are overclocked with proper heating, nothing goes beyond 73 degrees celsius.
My thermal paste is always freshy fresh, PC is always dust-free.
Voltage is proper.

Gotta play on low settings for the most part.
Very little changes by turning my addons off, but PvP without addons is not possible.

3

with the latest patch they changed something with the engine and now the game is unplayable, yesterday i got 12 fps in a fight, very cinematic

1 Like
4

That does not help in CPU-limited scenarios like big m+ trash pulls, raids or world events with many players, and yes your 2700X is really showing it’s age.

Have you tried without addons? Weakauras especially can cause large fps drops with many mobs/players.

1 Like
5

I dont think that shoulð be the case since i play other mmos with higher quality graphics who simply run at higher settings i really think my CpU is at least mid tear.
How can 8 cores not be enough for this cartoony game i just cannot get this through my head.

6

can you like stop spreadding nonsense

-i do not a have any addons
-there are only 5 players in a dungeon
-skyLOD command doesnt even do anything neither does the line exist in my config and on top of that there is no sky in the dungeon
-prior to the patch i was playing dragonflight without any performance issues steady 250+ fps flying around, now i cant keep my fps above 100 and in fights it goes single digits i literally lose control over my char and certain spells freeze the game straight up, again before the patch this did not happen

the problem is not on our end, Blizzard changed something with the way the engine/dx12 renders things and AMD cards cant handle it, its literally the same Nvidia hairworks all over again

7

You do have the game installed on the SSD though right?

Because it’s not using 8 cores, not 7 not 6 not 4 not 2, just a single mainthread for the combat and addons on top of it all.

I’ve explained this like a thousand times over the years so i’m just gonna link you this recent bluepost which confirms what im trying to explain to you.

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/de/wow/t/ruckeln-in-game/235972/7

It’s in german but i’m sure you know how to translate it :slight_smile:

So you are literally playing with the default ui and 0 addons? That’s really hard to believe but ok.

and a lot of trash mobs…

i never said anything about that…

That’s funny because the game was stuttering like crazy for most people inlcuding myself until the first big patch.
Since then it’s running pretty smooth again, like before the DF pre-patch.

The only performance issues i am getting is because of addons like weakauras and plater mostly (altough raider.io does cause stuttering too).
These issues are directly related to the game’s heavy reliance on singlethreading.

PS: maybe post your hardware specs?

9

Thank you for your answer Aimjinx!

I didn’t try without weakaura but tbf if I can’t play WoW with addons in super low setting (I even use 1 in graph settings) there is a huge problem.

I understand that wow is heavily single threaded but my configuration is really solid and I don’t have trouble in other games, in SL that was also ok with a WAY worse configuration.

I cannot fathom having 20 fps with big packs or raid at 1 setting with my configuration it’s really not acceptable.

And this problem is quite recent like I said in SL I didn’t have it and it’s really really frustrating and a lot of people have this and Blizzard is still silent.

10

I get it, but still, graphics settings have nothing to do with addons :smiley:
Graphics settings are mostly hitting the GPU in WoW, except draw distance and environmental detail which increaes the number of draw calls (more meshes to prepare for the CPU).
Meanwhile addons are hitting the CPU hard.

Were you running on a notebook before?

So if the drops still persist without addons, then there is only the option of either CPU not boosting or actually even throttling due to heat or a power saving/bios setting, or it might be that your RAM is not running at max speed and in dual channel mode.
Check if your RAM has XMP profile enabled and is running at whatever speed it should be like 3600Mhz (shows as 1800Mhz in tools like CPU-Z).

RAM speed is really important when you are CPU-limited.

11

I cannot agree with you my friend, how a 5900HS Ryzen with boost ON and IS NOT THROTTLING (the temp are around 80C it starts throttling at around 95 for this model) can not run smoothly with even just 50 fps a game even if it’s single threaded.

Really easy excuse especially when people with insane specs (the BEST CPU and GPU) still have the stuttering.

They did something wrong with the game engine that’s it and they try to hide it under the rug, with absolutely no answer.

How THE BEST CPU in the market can be CPU LIMITED, when it was TOTALLY FINE IN SL, my config was a freakin 2700k (from 2012) and a GTX 970 super old CPU and GPU and still was doing amazing at SL.

Now with an RYZEN 9 5900HS TURBO ON and a RTX 3060 (even laptop one) it’s not handling it, please don’t even bother defending Blizzard here my friend.

12

It’s always been CPU limited, Blizzard themselves have admitted that. The core engine was written in a time when CPU’s only HAD one core, it was never envisioned that we’d have multicore CPU’s AND WoW would still exist.

A few xpacks ago, the core engine was updated slightly, to offload the processing of addons to a second core. But the main thread STILL only runs on a SINGLE core.

Thats why older CPU’s with stronger single core performance, and CPU’s with MMO’s in mind still beat a lot of “modern” CPU’s where WoW is concerned.

Also “THE BEST CPU in the market” is purely subjective opinion and depends entirely on the task you intend for it.

13

And why in SL there was no problem ? How you cannot admit that Blizzard did something wrong since DF with the engine, the best CPU in the market is clearly identified and people has problem with it.

And no old CPU doesn’t have better single thread performance it’s a lie, recent CPU even with a lot of core has a good single thread performance.

It’s not excusable, and there are no such subjective option about the best CPU’s in the market, even if some are better in some application or games.

We’re talking about a video game, how you can fathom that is totally normal that people with insane specs cannot run the game properly.

That’s just delusional and false because SL didn’t have this problem, it’s since Dragonflight, they screwed up, that’s it. People with a Ryzen 9 7950X3D have BAD perf how is it possible ???

A 7950X3D is still WAY stronger in single thread than a 2700k from 11 years ago.

No excuse.

14

You’ve been told the same thing by multiple people now. So I will just leave you yelling into the void.

Have fun

1 Like
15

You’re completly delusional, how can you defend Blizzard “oh it’s a single thread game” even tho it’s single thread, there is no reason that the best CPU’s cannot handle the game, those CPU are better in single thread than old CPU, that’s a lie that older CPU are better in single thread (2700k is absolutely not better than a 7950 in single thread just check every benchmark).

You cannot justify a miserable performance that appeared recently that is obviously an engine problem, even without addons I just tested it, it’s still poor performances.

They did something wrong since 10.0 and they don’t communicate about it, A LOT of people have this problem, stop defending Blizzard in that case it’s absolutely not defendable, in any way, in shape of form, any perspective that this game even with the best specs runs at 25fps when there are 5 mobs.

Even with turbo on it’s still extremly bad, when are you gonna understand is not a spec problem but an engine problem because they did something since the launch of DF.

But keep delusionnal, keep supporting Blizzard and their silence (locking topics, not answering after months).

1 Like
16

It was always CPU limited and no you weren’t doing amazing.
I had a 3570K OC for a loong time and replaced it later on with a 3900X (which was a bad choice for WoW, but good for productivity).

Even with the 3900X which is still quite faster than the 2700K and 3570K i had like 30 fps on avg in 30man hc and 20man mythic raids with drops to like 10 FPS in extreme situations like Denathrius add spawn on mythic or Sylvanas with motes.

My 5800X3D has literally double the FPS than my old 3900X.
Didn’t change anything else in my setup.

There is definately something wrong with their system or most of the time it’s an addon issue.
Especially after a patch there are always FPS issues with outdated addons until there is an updated version.

Right now the game runs really good for me expect stuff that is game engine related like the phasing stutters when flying into Valdrakken for example.

SL did have alot of issues at the end with the S3 affixes like the motes which i mentioned above.
Then the flickering issues etc etc.

The framepacing stuttering issues started with the DF-prepatch and lasted until the first big patch that is right and it was really annoying.

And your FPS with a 7950X3D will be like tripple than the 2700K… so what are you saying?

Who says that? Are you assuming that because you have that problem with your hardware that others have it too?
Like i said, there are issues with the game, some have been fixed some not, the CPU-limit will never be fixed with this engine.
Can you have good performance with good hardware and proper addons? Yes.

You know the people with good performance don’t come here posting about it right?

17

I think you really don’t get my point here.

There is absolutely no excuse, tons of people have issues, they did something wrong with the engine since DF, there are tons of topic about it, lots of people complaining, the stuttering is insane.

Blizzard is just hiding it under the rug, adressing nothing.

I think you have a huge misconception and don’t want to admit that DF is horrendous in terms of performance, all the CPU in the current market are way better single thread than a 2700k but with it in SL (it’s the same engine, why you still avoiding that fact ?) there was absolutely no CPU limitation problem.

Saying that a 5900HS with boost on (boost that works on single thread just saying, it’s boosting a core) is a bottleneck for the game is at best delusional, at worse a problem with Blizzard.

Just to let you know a 5900HS in singlecore is around the 5800X3D, but you will tell me that a powerful CPU (even in singlecore) cannot run the game ? They optimized DF like trash, it’s a problem that a lot of player have but you still denying that fact.

You’re telling me that I need a 13900K to run this game properly, and how can you say that a 5900HS and a RTX 3060 are not enough for running WoW then you need to admit that it’s not possible to sell this game right now with those bottlenecks.

Look all the topics, it’s consistent, everytime a problem with even high end configuration when more than 4 mobs are on the screen.

18

WoW has always been CPU-limited in mass encounters and in general because it is only using one main cpu-thread. There is nothing they can do except switch to a newer engine or rework 18+ years of spaghetti code.

Again, see here for confirmation if you don’t believe me:
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/de/wow/t/ruckeln-in-game/235972/7

Here is the DeepL translation:

Hello Neviz,

wait my cpu is so bad but actually it is never really used to capacity so between 20-30% max 40

WoW mainly uses one core and a few others with lower utilisation. The CPU load is then never 100% overall, but the CPU is still the proverbial performance bottleneck here. The fact that you experience stutters in instances and raids is not something you can fix with tips and tricks, but an upgrade of the CPU would bring a significant improvement in performance.

Maybe it helps you understand the problem here.

Except the X3D is about 30% faster in WoW because of the extra CPU-cache which helps alot in CPU-limited games.

See here:

https://www.pcgameshardware.de/World-of-Warcraft-Dragonflight-Spiel-73654/Specials/WoW-Dragonflight-Benchmarks-Anforderungen-1408516/2/

I never said the game performs great, especially if you don’t have a high-end CPU and even then you will have subpar FPS in many situations.

Here are some screenshots i took with 40-80+ players on screen, you can see the FPS in the bottom right:

Even though the average WoW player would say these FPS are really good and playable, the problem here is the bad framepacing with microstutters which makes it feel really bad.
This is mostly because of the addons but the underlying issue is that the one CPU-thread is choking on all these player inputs.

You don’t unless you want high refreshrates and 60+ FPS in a raid (not counting world events).
Most players, even most streamers on twitch have really low FPS (imho) in raids and M+ dungeons. Just zap through wow streams, you will find some showing their FPS and they are mostly in the 30-40s.

This is just hyperbole, if you want to be taken serious here don’t post something like that.

They have been selling it since 2004 :slight_smile:
I had many CPUs in that timespan and it was always the same, if your CPU wasn’t up to date you had a bad experience in 20+ man raids and even some more complex dungeons later on like Freehold.

PS: here’s a bonus screenshot for you to better compare the FPS, my settings are on 7

and here with more people and the MSI Afterburner OSD, see the CPU usage, mostly one core (this is not all WoW obviously with stuff in the background like chrome etc):

19

I know that WoW is a single threaded game because of the engine, but they have a really shortage or devlopers to fix their spaghetti code (I work as a backend engineer, I know a bit about maintening a code base etc…), but it’s their fault.

A 5900HS is a really good cpu even for single thread, it’s mind blowing that it cannot run, what I’m trying to point out here is the fact that it’s really a bad user experience when you have a solid configuration and the game slow to 25/30 fps in raid and M+, they cannot justify their non maintenability of the code with the engine forever.

They need either refactor their mess (but I guess they cannot because only few devs work on WoW) or change the whole engine, this problem will continue forever and it’s really bad (and not even talking about the stuttering issues every patch).

They really don’t care about performances, they just write certainly awful code just to ship features and now if you don’t have a 13900K you cannot run the game properly.

I’m sorry but Blizzard cannot be defend in this case, and like you said even big streamers have horrible FPS and their specs are really good.

It’s utterly frustrating because they don’t communicate much about it, and they try to hide the problem under the carpet.

They need to face it one day and do a huge refactoring or a revamp of the engine, of course it will take a long time and cost a lot of money so they will never do it (especially because this type of content is only played by a fraction of the playerbase), but it’s a really bad behaviour towards customers.

It cannot be justified to ask for the best CPU to play WoW in a “ok” situation (60fps when there are multiple mobs).

Don’t get me wrong I know what you mean and what you’re saying about the single thread problem which was always a problem for WoW, but they need to tackle it that’s why I’m mad, their code is a freaking spaghetti mess (most certainly) and their engine is too old.

They need to fix one of those 2.

20

I don’t even think it’s possible to change the code to the amount needed for the game to perform like it should.
Remember when they said they can’t change the main bag slot size because it is “hardcoded” within the game?
They changed it for like SL or so but still it took them like 15 years :slight_smile:

Then they keep adding new features which either do nothing (like VRR) or even gimp the performance more for a minor visual gain (like raytraced shadows).

Remember the flickering shadows glitch in SL?

I could go on and on… but all i am trying to say is that it either took them months or even years to fix stuff like that.
So i don’t have much hope that that will change in the future.

21

“Horrible performances in raid and M+ with many packs”

This specific issue is usually caused by addons. It’s almost always nameplate addons. I’m not saying big pulls wont tank your fps, but the stuttering and lurching of the frame rate is usually due to how complex and inefficient nameplate addons are.