if garrosh and all his mechanized army went to the caverns of time, how did he get a portal to draenor ?
also, how did he kill the dragons there ?
2 Likes
Rule of cool.
Answer: He did not.
Garrosh was freed during his trial in Pandaria by the bronze Dragon Kairozdormu. He send him to Draenor in an alternate Timeline, where Garrosh convinced the Orcs to form the Iron Horde.
He build his army on Draenor and didn’t bring it with him.
5 Likes
Indeed, nothing as unrealistic as bringing engines over, just a full-scale industrial revolution by the tribal savages in 2 years, led by the known engineering genius Garrosh. To do that he convinced the younger alternate version of his father to trust him (without revealing his identity), to conquer all the orcish tribes, to doublecross Gul’dan and his demons, and to sacrifice tons of Draenei to… invade Garrosh’s world because why the funky fork not. Let’s just say that WoD’s premises aren’t all that much more solid than SL’s.
Don’t think too much about it, it’s not worth the effort.
5 Likes
He didn’t. Kairoz helped him escape.
1 Like
The blackrock clan were known blacksmiths before Garrosh. Garrosh is no engineering genius but he would know enough about modern by Warcraft standards engiuneering to impart to the blackrock clan. Its not that farfetched.
1 Like
We seem to have very, very different views about what is farfetched then. 
What is farfetched ? Garrosh giving knowledge from 30+ years in the future to the blackrock clan to kickstart a industrial revolution the blackrocks were already master blacksmiths streamlining production is within their abilities to do .
Garrosh was hotheaded and stubborn but was never stupid and was a world leader .
He also knows the history of the Orc clans and knows what reasons could be given for them to unite.
He knows about Gul’dan and his plans .
He overreached when he decided to invade Azeroth wiothout securing Draenor.
Blacksmiths learning mechanics from a warlord from a steppe tribe? In 2 years? Starting with nothing at all, no preexisting machines, no followers, no bloodline he could claim, just the presumed force of his personality? Half a continent away from the blacksmiths you base your attempted explanation on, by the way?
Yeah, if you find that plausible, I just find that funny.
You do realise that Draenor is crawling with goblins from blackfuse company; the remnants of Helix Blackfuse who’s the mastermind behind many of Garrosh’s siege weapons.
Those goblins aren’t native to Draenor. They followed Garrosh, although it’s a bit unclear when or how.
2 Likes
To be honest the real question is how did that rot brained idiot even learn how to build them to such a point he could pass that information on before he got confused by his shadow.
The Blackfuse company can only have joined him after the portal opened. Kairoz brought only Garrosh over, and Garrosh instantly knifed him for the trouble. So if the goblins are to be responsible for the Iron Horde industry the timetable would be even more ridiculous.
1 Like
Garrosh was arrogant and impatient he was never stupid. I still say that Garrosh would know enough of the basics of engineering to give Blackhand and his blacksmiths an idea of what to build.
I’m not that stupid, either. And I come from a world, where I actually learn the basics of engineering even from mandatory schooling programs. That’s how I know how ridiculous the idea of someone with a superficial understanding and no hand-on-experience directing a tribal blacksmith in creating something as simple as a steam engine that doesn’t break over a few months is. I certainly couldn’t do that. Much less training the tons of engineers that the Iron Horde has, and building trains, steamships, and tons and tons of weapons in the limited timeframe. And that’s discounting the time and work it’d take to actually convince the other rival tribes of the continent to go through with it.
I can fully understand someone saying “it’s warcraft, the details don’t matter that much, and dieselpunk orcs are cool, so stop the nitpicking”, but I am frankly a bit baffled by people who actually think it makes for a coherent story, instead of a setpiece.
Lots of people don’t understand how engineering works. And how many people with lots of knowledge you need to transform an agricultural society into an industrial one.
2 Likes
can we stop with the idea of “garrosh knows how to build ships” already ?
do you even realize how complicated the profession “ship builder” or “ship designer” or “marine engineer” is ?
in order to design even the most basic wooden ships, you need to know math, geomatry, physics, meteorology, woodworking, tailoring, rope making, and more.
metal skeleton will make it even more complicated. add to it heavy weights like cannons, its even more complicated. add to that steam engine (or any kind of engine), that is multiple more layers of complicated.
catapult is also very complicated construct for a warrior-type warchief.
garrosh does not have the knowledge of ship construction.
and he does not have the knowledge of catapults construction.
he does not have the knowledge of gunpowder.
all of these did not come from garrosh.
and there are many disciplines of engineering. and every project is a team effort of multiple disciplines.
2 Likes
I do believe these kind of details do fall under the “insignificant details” category, it wouldn’t be hard to imagine that Garrosh used fragment of the Vision of Time to bring books from his timelines or whatever. The idea of “Going into the past and bringing your knowledge to it” is interesting and credible as it is.
I would be more concerned about why the Bronze Dragons didn’t do anything about it while part their job is to maintain the timelines.
1 Like
the books contain the scientific principles. the applied aspect of it is a knowledge that cannot be read.
I assume that the STEM field must feel very alien to you.
Things get messy when you explore dungeons and quests realize Garrosh’s Iron Horde had GOBLINS engineers in, implying they’d have engineered the iron star used against the pit lord in the cinematic, but also that they travelled in time with Garrosh and Kairoz without being mentionned.
I bet it was the initial plan of the devs, way back with the chronal spire and so on, but later changed and this stayed as it is, making this plot hole.
So now we have to assume Garrosh had the engineering plans memorized somehow or Kairoz brought them on parchment, and that the Goblins only traveled there later, when the Dark Portal was opened.
this 
This point is also a reason I suspect the original setting planned to take place YEARS later after the arrival of Garrosh (and his crew).
But they may have though “oh no Garrosh would be too old, it’s worse”…
Hell, do we have any fact-checked time frame clue about these supposed “2 years from Draenor’s perspective”? Was it explicit in game? in the quests? (I genuinely can’t remember)
That’s why we have to admit the presence of the Blackfuse teams way before the plot implies their arrival :s
lol, the Bronze Dragons even directly HELPED the GENOCIDAL Sylvanas’ Horde to bring back the Future’s Draenor Mag’har for their war effort.
Now Bronze Dragonflight is a joke.