How LFG, ilevel and making the game more accessible is ruining the game

[Yolandass-outland (Yolandass)]

Will you stop acting like some lfr Social justice warrior you are just annoying people just leave it alone i dont like LFR and i agree with him you acting like a lawyer to lfr is not going to make me change my mind.

[Bukachu-ravencrest]

So? He is still the one who shouted about how LFR is satans but crack. So what if he isnt playing it anymore, he is still to blame

blame for what? he’s right.
you can just “blame” people for “being” right because you dont like the truth
that’s not how any of it works.

[Savoren-draenor (Savoren)]

LFR is not raiding… Activision already aknowledged it is sightseeing…

Yes, it’s essentially tourist mode. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Since Legion.

Yeah, people are obviously getting fully mythic geared in LFR. That +50 ilvl TF with socket and extra stats is definitely common.

Oh wait…

So does LFR, but it has an additional insentive for Mythic raiders to do it, rather than Mythic dropping them.

No? LFR doesn’t drop anything decent, the only thing that are lower quality than LFR gear are WQ rewards.

You can also buy potions from the AH, Herbs, Food, Feasts and so on, yet farming them is always more cost efficient. Augment runes are the only resourse that isn’t.

Or you can keep farming those crafting materials for a 30 minutes more, sell the extras and buy runes with that gold. It’d definitely help since you obviously don’t like doing LFR.

[Bukachu-ravencrest]

You can also buy potions from the AH, Herbs, Food, Feasts and so on, yet farming them is always more cost efficient. Augment runes are the only resourse that isn’t.

Shh go buy some runes, help out those in need with some pocket change.

I mean if runes drop from all raiding levels, how are LFR players going to get their… dum tss… pocket change?

[Rezista-ravencrest (Rezista)]

Yes, it’s essentially tourist mode. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Except WoW is a game, not a movie.

Yeah, people are obviously getting fully mythic geared in LFR. That +50 ilvl TF with socket and extra stats is definitely common.

It doesn’t matter if it is common or not. What matters is that is possible and it shouldn’t.

No? LFR doesn’t drop anything decent, the only thing that are lower quality than LFR gear are WQ rewards.

Titanforge.

[Ignatious-thunderhorn]

The thing with LFR and accessibility is like this: the game originally was made for gamers, and the gamer mentality is “give me a challenge I like (very important point), I want to strive to conquer it”. But at some point at the end of Wrath of the LK and later during Cataclysm, they (Blizzard) decided that 12 million gamers is not enough, so they started trying to attract movie goers. There is a fundamental difference between the mentality of a gamer and that of someone going to the cinema. When you go to the cinema, you want to see all of it because you payed for a ticket (and maybe you even payed for some overpriced popcorn and soda as well). This is the crowd for which the game became more and more accessible, the people that are not gamers, at most players.

The trouble with the idea of removing LFR now or anything similar is that there is a huge movie crowd already in the game, and the game cannot afford to lose subscribers that it already has at this point. It wouldn’t even be fair towards them if you think about it, LFR (and other accessibility) has been in the game for 7 years now, it’s the cinema aficionados’ game as much as the gamers’ game. They can’t remove LFR anymore than they can remove raiding in general, or remove RBGs - they created a player base for this feature and they created expectations from the game based on LFR. I’ll remind you that last time they decided to remove something that also created expectations, like flying, or like 10 player raiding, it wasn’t that well received, certainly not from everyone.

So bottom line: was it a mistake to push for more accessibility from the get-go? Yes, they managed to disappoint a large part of the original public of the game, the gamers. After Wrath ended and the accessibility pushing went further and further, they started leaving in droves, and kept leaving, and the game never recovered from that. But if that was a mistake, trying to remove LFR now would be a mistake of the same type.

I’d dispute that, they started leeking subs when they brought CC into Cata Heroics and made them harder. You seem to forget the “outcry” at the time.

You also seem to forget how people would leave every time the zone’d in to the one CC dungeon in WOTLK which was HOR.

“Gamers” as you call the hard core base cryed over WOTLK being too accessible. Blizzard listened to them, made Cata harder and lost millions of subs. They quickly reversed this policy when they realised what was happening, but too late to reverse the decline.

As for hard core players there always was and always is content for them. You have M+, Mythic Raiding, Arena, etc. so I really don’t get all the hate leveled at people who play on lower difficulties. It makes no sense at all.

WOW will never see the amount of subs it had back then in any case, it had almost a monopoly in the MMO market at the time. Now there is competition from everywhere and PC gaming is in a steady decline in all market segments worldwide, overtaken by console and mobile.

[Bukachu-ravencrest]

“Gamers” as you call the hard core base cryed over WOTLK being too accessible. Blizzard listened to them, made Cata harder and lost millions of subs. They quickly reversed this policy when they realised what was happening.

but even after they made cata easy peasy, people didnt return, so ill assume it has more to do with other changes than dungeons being hard.

for example, I left for 10 years after wotlk ended not because the game was hard but because PvP was turned into an actual trash. so that’s -1, my arena partners did the same so that’s -3. etc

[Ignatious-thunderhorn]

but even after they made cata easy peasy, people didnt return, so ill assume it has more to do with other changes than dungeons being hard.

for example, I left for 10 years after wotlk ended not because the game was hard but because PvP was turned into an actual trash. so that’s -1, my arena partners did the same so that’s -3. etc

A lot of the time when a customer quits your game they go and play something else, something they presumably paid for. They don’t sit and look at the television waiting for you to fix it. It is like if you make a bad car and someone changes to another model, you find it very hard to get them back when you make a good one.

[Ignatious-thunderhorn]

for example, I left for 10 years after wotlk ended not because the game was hard but because PvP was turned into an actual trash. so that’s -1, my arena partners did the same so that’s -3. etc

They have made a mess of PvP over the years, no doubt about that.

[Ignatious-thunderhorn]

Titanforge.

LFR titanforges to 360ilev once in a blue moon. I very much doubt that there are mythic raiders running around in there hoping for a tiny percentage 360ilev drop.

[Rékthal-frostwhisper]

Doesn’t that mean I should be the target audience for it? The casual player who’s favorite thing in the game is professions like picking flowers and fishing (Yes most of the time I fish for Slimy mackerels to make fish sticks for a quick buck). Yes I have done absolutely nothing for any gear piece I have and I do think that is part of the problem. Gear is so easy to obtain it has no value.

[Savoren-draenor (Savoren)]

Except WoW is a game, not a movie.

Games have difficulty levels, and LFR is the lowest one. Nothing unusual there.

It doesn’t matter if it is common or not. What matters is that is possible and it shouldn’t.

Except it does. If TF was common everyone would reach to +385 ilvl within weeks after Uldir opening, without doing nothing but LFR and M0 dungeons each week.

Random legendaries and set pieces were the excuse for doing LFR in Legion, but neither of those exist anymore in BfA. Anyone raiding heroic or mythic has next to no chances of getting an upgrade from LFR.

[Rékthal-frostwhisper]

Seriously, if you still play WoW at this point, and youre over the age of 13, there is absolutely no reason to complain.

WoW is just a steaming load of dung, and anyone playing it has issues. But complaining? It’s like complaining when eating rotten eggs. It’s like DUUH

True wow is not made for the ppl who loved the game back in wotlk, tbc and vanilla. Still I see no harm of bringing up the state of the game even tho ppl seem to think I’m an butthole (plz Blizzard don’t ban me) for bringing up issues I think are big part of the problem.

[Salendina-argent-dawn]

Issues that YOU see are a problem which is your OPINION. Not a fact. Opinions are never facts. “LFR is ruining the game” is a opinion not a fact like so many people claim. Learn to differentiate opinion and facts.

[Rékthal-frostwhisper]

Issues that YOU see are a problem which is your OPINION. Not a fact. Opinions are never facts. “LFR is ruining the game” is a opinion not a fact like so many people claim. Learn to differentiate opinion and facts.

I never stated these to be facts, if I did plz quote it. If it isn’t clear I have no facts to prove that LFR, ilevel and accessibility is ruining the game. These are opinions also a lot of ppl I know that used to play the game agree with me. That’s their opinion and still not a fact. There really is no facts about anything relating to sub count or anything since Blizzard stopped showing them at WoD.

[Redoctober-frostmane (Redoctober)]

“Gamers” as you call the hard core base cryed over WOTLK being too accessible. Blizzard listened to them, made Cata harder and lost millions of subs. They quickly reversed this policy when they realised what was happening, but too late to reverse the decline.

If your theory is to have any merit, it means that “quickly reversing the policy” should have also quickly reversed the trend. Guess what, it didn’t. Not only that, but the highest drop in subs in Cataclysm wasn’t even just after the start.

Gamers made World of Warcraft, and not only it but every Blizzard game great, losing gamers meant losing the soul of the game.

so I really don’t get all the hate leveled at people who play on lower difficulties. It makes no sense at all.

“Hate leveled at people”?.. Sorry, but it’s you who make no sense at all. Not unusual.

WOW will never see the amount of subs it had back then in any case

We agree on this, it won’t.

it had almost a monopoly in the MMO market at the time

It was a great game, and had the largest market share, but it was nowhere close to having a monopoly. But other companies tried to compete and get their slice constantly. 2006 saw the launch of known titles trying to capitalize on very well known franchises like Dungeons and Dragons Online and Guild Wars Factions. 2007 had Lord of the Rings Online, 2008 had AION, Warhammer Online and Age of Conan. But what happened is they didn’t stop Classic WoW or TBC’s growth levels, despite the franchises being super well known. Why? Probably because WoW really was awesome.

[Bukachu-ravencrest]

Except it does. If TF was common everyone would reach to +385 ilvl within weeks after Uldir opening,

except, that’s what happens without exagerations
everyone running around with 375+ ilvls few weeks into uldir. lmao

Random legendaries and set pieces were the excuse for doing LFR in Legion, but neither of those exist anymore in BfA.

yeah now its runes unless you wanna pay 50k each raid night for runes only.

Anyone raiding heroic or mythic has next to no chances of getting an upgrade from LFR.

yeah, more chance in warfronts.

Issues that YOU see are a problem which is your OPINION. Not a fact. Opinions are never facts. “LFR is ruining the game” is a opinion not a fact like so many people claim. Learn to differentiate opinion and facts.

?XD
define fact.

[Rezista-ravencrest (Rezista)]

WOW will never see the amount of subs it had back then in any case, it had almost a monopoly in the MMO market at the time.

What? No! You are wrong, you are SOOOOOOOO WORNG! WoW came in a marked filled with MMOs and it won. It won over all of them! After that it got challenged by numerois others MMOs and it won again.

Now there is competition from everywhere and PC gaming is in a steady decline in all market segments worldwide, overtaken by console and mobile.

Yeah, right, that is why Witcher 3 on PC broke all time records for sells. Mobile gaming has nothing to do with PC and Consile gaming. It is completely different market and to say that is the couse of gaming decline is ridicilous, because it doesn’t have the same audiance. Mobile gaming is made for other people, it has no impact on the PC community at all, except burrying Activision’s stock.
Just because publishers like Activision REFUSE to make good PC games, cought cough Witcher 3, cough, doesn’t mean that there is no market for them, if anything, Witcher 3 is the myth braker that publishers are pushing for the past 10 years. Witcher 3 has the most PC sales of all times, and even 4 years later it still sells coppies.

[Rékthal-frostwhisper]

It was a great game, and had the largest market share, but it was nowhere close to having a monopoly. But other companies tried to compete and get their slice constantly. 2006 saw the launch of known titles trying to capitalize on very well known franchises like Dungeons and Dragons Online and Guild Wars Factions. 2007 had Lord of the Rings Online, 2008 had AION, Warhammer Online and Age of Conan. But what happened is they didn’t stop Classic WoW or TBC’s growth levels, despite the franchises being super well known. Why? Probably because WoW really was awesome.

I did read a comment somewhere saying FFXIV was saved cause they made it to be more like wow. I really think wow should try be more like wow maybe it could save itself too.

[Ignatious-thunderhorn]

@Rezista-ravencrest

Yeah, right, that is why Witcher 3 on PC broke all time records for sells. Mobile gaming has nothing to do with PC and Consile gaming. It is completely different market and to say that is the couse of gaming decline is ridicilous, because it doesn’t have the same audiance. Mobile gaming is made for other people, it has no impact on the PC community at all, except burrying Activision’s stock.

PC gaming is losing market share every year consistently:

From Forbes ( a reliable source for things financial)

Is mobile gaming taking over from console gaming? A poll of male and female gamers by U.K.-based mobile strategy agency Tappable has found that the smartphone is now the preferred gaming device of 42% of gamers. Of the rest, 32% preferred consoles and 26% the PC.

So 74% of the gaming market is now mobile or console based.

From an investment point of view it does not return the same bang for your buck and this will be its eventual demise as it is more lucrative to invest in other platforms.