Really?
Because warlords of dreanor told us otherwise.
Our Draenor did not have a vengeful Orc given a time shard from a dragon and made crazy for the hell of it.
This is like me saying Humans in Warcraft have always been sophisticated builders of entire glorious kingdoms and ignoring the fact that they, in their base nature were at one point also tribalistic and primitive.
And then when I am in your seat, I would say things like: “Realleh? 'Cuz uhhh… STORMWIND!”
No. Just no.
You don’t apply “BECAUSE THIS/THAT GUY DID…!” to making a base definition.
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And how that this justify them being bloodthirsty?
They where still the same bloodthirst ork’s execpt this time they coudnt blame it on the demon blood.
Garrosh might have pointed them towards azaroth but there bloodlust wasnt caused by him.
Ah but here is the difference.
Orc’s worship war.
It is in there nature.
The killed a dark naruu because it was on the same ground as there ancestor corpses.
They have shown zero respect for other culture’s or even idea’s other then bloodshed.
The humans build kingdoms.
Work togather with other humans.
One could argue that without outside influence the orc’s would never be more then savage animals clawing at the world.
If you remember thrall was raised by humans and had human value’s.
And he was the greatest warchief they had.
Orc’s are violent by nature.
Guldan and his council created the possision of warchief to keep the clans in line.
To kill the wicked isnt a moral dilemma.
It is a neccecity.
Hence my counter:
A good man will kill you with hardly a word.
A good man wont take joy in the evil he must do to achief good.
And yes it will effect him but it wont rule him.
A good person will take its own life before becoming that what he seeks to destroy.
Self sacrifice and all that.
Thus they wont become mass murdering monsters.
Broken wrecks?
Probley.
Monsters?
Nope.
Not easy.
But our entire history is pretty much us learning from our mistakes and becoming better people.
We wont go back to failed times.
We move forward.
We always move forward.
Without the horde the night elves are first to leave.
The worgen will leave when gilliass is rebuild.
The dreanei would rebuild argus or build a new life on azaroth.
Keeping diplomatic ties with everyone but not being offical part of any alliance.
The dwarves, humans and gnomes will remain an alliance.
Lightforged will help the dreanei and void elves will either study until madness claims them or go to silvermoon and destroy the sunwell by accident.
The alliance is united aslong as there is a threat to there existance.
Remove that threat and they break.
No race nature is good.
We all have our demons.
Overcomming our nature is what makes one good.
Not to be true to there nature for there nature is evil.
Of course it wasn’t.
The earliest running theory you could point to their aggression is their link to the Breakers. Or if WoWpedia is legit in Aggramar’s evolutions of the Breaker subraces.
And how? Well, if i’m pulling all strings, then one can say it’s Orcs of a different timeline. It’s stretching it, but that’s what it really is.
Read my post above -again-. If Tribal warfare and primitive expansion through dealing with weaker clans is maniacal and bloodthirsty, then a lot of other races can’t laugh or look down on them.
You answered the same question I was about to ask in one statement. Well done.
Err… no?
Are you saying without Demons, the Orcs are doomed to being animals? That’s a bit racist, don’t you think?
Yes, to a regime that was PROGRESSIVELY DEVELOPED. Not immediately included as their nature.
I’m not saying Orcs are innocent or fair-do-well-angels in reality, no. That’s not what i’m saying. I’m saying that at their base core, aggression is a factor that partly defines them, not their full-on description and history.
If so, then what would have been the point for other reflections of primitive society? What’s the point of shamanism to counsel wisdom? What’s the point in hunting? nomadic travel? cultivation?
If you look and read, a lot of what Orcs do are not answered by throwing an axe at it. Or roaring at it really loudly.
Fel Horde and Iron Horde … or even ‘Horde’ in general are but developments. Orcs did not start off this way.
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soo the true nature of orc are the same as blood elf
or tauren and goblin true nature are the same thing
It seems that everyone was ok with the other watched, except of Garrosh.
this true nature to me are just honor all over again a word that have no definition and can be whatever people think it is
“Honor” is not the right word. The word what you’re looking for is “moral”.
Tell that to Arthas.
About orcs in general I think Lords of War series did them justice explaining how each clan differed from another and their ways.
Considering that Draenor is much younger and promitive planet then Azeroth and seeing how each clan had to fight for theor own survival its understandable how orcs are more violance driven when it comes to resolving conflicts.
I would not go as far and say they are violent race in general, they are capable of being noble creatures, with their own religion and love for each other and earth they lived it - shamans and Frostwolves being great example of that. Frostwolves practiced to quench their rage control it, thus actually differing themselves from the rest of the clans. Even in Thralls Horde we saw orcs change, so if they are capable of changing they are not by nature violent.
My one of favourite Orcs Nazgrim was the example of loyalty and duty which imo requires self discipline and victory over personal ambitions.
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Arthas was pridefull, arrogant and selfish.
Not a good person.
Absolutely not Arthas, story is one of the kost detailed story WoW has ever produced.
Was he proud - yes, a proud price of a proud kingdom, arrogant no he was very humble up until Stratholme and last thing he ws not selfish.
Edit: Back to orcs, as Night Elves say - Ana’duna falore, iszera duna bantallas (yes sister, green skins are primitive)
I understand what Aeula means.
The cinematics are set it stone, and take a whole team of employees to create.
Quests are more lax.
They can have their dialogue rewritten, tweaked, or removed. You can even change or remove certain aesthetic features of the world building process in order to send a modified or adjusted message that addresses potential or actual backlash.
You can have Shandris NOT speaking about human potential. Or remove Tauren Plague throwers. Or add dialogue lines that have players telling Baine/Saurfang/Sylvanas to sod off (with varying degrees).
But you can’t just remove/redo a whole cinematic that includes visual and dialogue features that set the story in a certain path. Not without nullifying (presumably), weeks or months of department work.
Sure, the cinematic team doesn’t define the story route. But theirs is a work that narrows the wiggle room Story writers have to check for potential collision courses or at least address player worries.
You can’t check Baine dialogue in a cinematic, nor make Sylvanas any less ‘villainous’ while screeching herself out of Lorderons throne room.
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Nazgrim - the living Nazgrim was a true example of an Orc. He stayed, yes, but out of fear he would relinquish his honour. And it is a personal code he would go against if he too succumbed to joining he Rebellion.
If only Gey’arah was written like this. I would understand her case too.
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To be honest, given that we have Brennadam (and the awfully conspicuous overlap of quillboar and horde dudes). Pretty much anything, even last minute.
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Yes, his honour and sense of duty, serving the warchief was admirable. Loved his quest lines, dialogue with Gammon in SoO and only boss I regretted to kill in that raid. Pretty hard on HC too 
Yeah death gripper Nazgrim is nothing like his living self.
Edit: About Gey’arah it makes me wonder how Draka and Durotan raised a daughter with temperament of Garrosh. Guess they were not as good parents as they were warriors.
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Hi Hala! ![:relaxed:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/relaxed.png?v=6" ":relaxed:")
I think they were just trying to reflect how the Lightbound affected the denizens of Draenor through Gey’arah. Just… a little too hard, imo.
“Guys, guys! This woman’s been affected really badly by the Lightbound!”
“O…kay?”
“I mean REALLY REALLY affected! Like, ignorantly so!”
“We get it.”
“NO I MEAN REALLY REALLY AFFECTED.”
“We KNOW.”
“NO. YOU DON’T KNOW. YOU DON’T KNOW HOW AFFECTED THIS WOMAN IS BY THE LIGHTBOUND. SHE’S REALLY REALLY AFFECTED.”
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Mag’har jokes.
Try spending a few decades trapped on a planet with fanatical draenei and see how YOU like it!
Just a joke, but the underlying message is clear.
Yeah, i’d say context is rather relevant when judging how certain character got to have certain traits. Its not as if said mindset usually comes out of the blue.
Fanatical religious persecution is going to majorly tilt a people/person. Not always in a good direction.
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