I was thinking about the scene where Talanji tells Sylvanas that the Zandalari will join the Horde.
But as equal member’s, which means for me, she will not do everything Sylvanas orders her to do if she disagrees.
Makes sense, since they still have a powerful navy, even though they lost half of it.
Their military hasn’t been involved in recents battles as all the other Horde races.
Example: Teldrassil and Battle of Lordaeron.
Which in my opinion rates their army, numbers above the Forsaken, Orcs, Taurens, Darkspears Trolls, Blood Elfs and Goblins.
The same can be said in my opinion about the recently promoted Lord Admiral Jaina.
The Kul-Tyrans still have their fleet intact and their army as well.
Could the title Lord Admiral of Kul-Tyras be the equivalent to King of Stormwind ?
Is it safe to say Jaina could address Anduin as a leader of a equal powerful human kingdom ?
Greymane is king of Gilneas, but his country was decimated, so his military power isn’t the same as the Kul-Tyrans and Stormwind.
Would make sense and would explain why Talanji can afford to demand to be an ally, not a subject.
Talanji and Zandalari are completely new to the Horde while Jaina is all for Anduin and co. She wouldn’t be making such demands. The Alliance is absolutely unified unlike the Horde, I guess (and I am not saying this is a good thing story-wise).
It’s not the same. It had to be vastly diminished because unified Gilneas with Genn at the helm and his dear friend Darius at his side would obliterate the Void Lords before we could experience that story.
The ground forces of both the Zandalari and Kul’tiras are heavily spent at this point. The Zandalari have been fighting plenty of battles on their home turf against the Blood Trolls and later the Alliance forces. Kul’tiras is in exactly the same boat as they have been suffering massively from the Horde to the Coven to the Naga and so on.
Both of their capitals have been undersieged (I’d argue Borlas was more so as near enough everywhere was on fire and Anduin wanted to minimize causalities in the CoL and wasn’t there to sack the place).
This just leaves their navy which I would give Kul’tiras the edge here as the majority of the fleet is fine and half of the Zandalari’s has been sunk.
It is hard to say cos’ numbers of WoW don’t make sense and there can be mass or little to none troops depending on what the writers put. I’d say the Zandalari are probably one of the last of the Horde nations on the list in terms of military might (discounting the Loa). The only ones what would be lower are Mag’har and Goblins.
Kul’tiras is probably a bit higher on the list as the allied races aren’t really as big as the Horde’s one (besides the Dark Iron), Draenei are still seemly recovering after Argus and Worgen are refugees once again. So I would put them just below Night Elves.
The Ground forces of Kul Tiras are trash tier since, so far, they have lost against each enemy, in every zone. The Horde, Zandalari, Drust forces from Gorak Tul and Witches, Quilboars, Pirates, nagas etc. What makes them strong is, that they still have the full force of the last powerful fleet standing on Azeroth. Zandalari just lost a little more than half their fleet but still have quite an adequate army and air forces. In a fair fight, it would be even between them. But knowing Blizzard Jaina just need to sneeze frost magic and insta wins. Typically.
Ground and aerial forces give the edge to Zandalar. That’s the point of needing to draw them out of the city before invading it.
Kul Tiran ground forces are near nonexistent, as it was shown throughout the questing.
Zandalari have heavy weaponry and a solid cavalry (stronger than the conventional one because it’s made up by literal dinosaurs).
Naval forces are currently stronger for Kul Tiran. With more ships and specialised units to support them. The Golden Fleet was severely hampered, and many of their crew mates killed in the siege of Dazar’alor.
Also, Kul Tiras has focused most its resources into specialising their units to further complement their fleet (Tidesages, etc.)
So, regarding who is stronger depends entirely on the setting or battlefield.
If Kul Tiran met with Zandalari in a naval battle they’ll definetly destroy each and every ship.
If Zandalari managed to transport and deploy their full army in Kul Tiras, they’d raze Boralus to the ground within a day.
I think you overrate the zandalari. They certainly are not very weak, and have alot of knowledge to use. But they are portayed much weaker than they used to before bfa. They had alot of failed expeditions, their land sunk a bit due to the cataclysm while kulthiras "only"drifted away from the continent
Before bfa they sounded like a huge empire, but in fact they are only one city (one smaller than suramar) in a single zone. It turns out their mighty empire couldnt even keep blood trolls and sethtrak or the lesser trolls (as they call them) under control anymore. Alot of inner problems going on as well.
The fleet was the one thing they had going on well. If they didnt have the fleet they would have just ended up as generic evil troll raid numer 99
Yes but it still required to lure the major bulk of their army out of the city so Alliance had a chance of sieging them. It still sais ALOT about how massive Zandalari army is if, the remaining small one was enough to give Full blown Alliance assualt quite a lot of sweat. Alliance assault which required coperation of each sub faction, and sacrifice of bulk of their forces for diversion.
They needed to sabotage the navy because otherwise Zandalari would obliberate them before they’d even reach the shores, where their missless had deadly accuracy. I mean one shot was a bullseye on Jaina, and she would be dead if it wouldn’t be for her magic.
Considering that they still have bulk of their armies they’re still threat on their own.
They lost half of their navy, but even from RL history we learned about examples where smaller armada was able to detroy bigger one.
So I think that game is still on. Although as other posters said, the only thing that made Kul’Tirans have edge was their navy alone, they don’t have anything else that could rival Zandalari.
And now for OP :
It was a huge relief for me. everyone assumed that Talanji had to replace Rastakhan to make Zandalari join Horde as Rastakhan wouldn’t allow for it. I was also quite pessimistic that Zanalari had to be beaten to the point they’d become subfaction of Horde, so no words could describe how pleased I was with Talanji’s stance. She really is leader of Zandalar that won’t allow Zandalari to be bossed around - they’re first civilization on Azeroth, they have pride, history and traditions, reducing them to sub faction would be a massive disservice. It also showed that she would follow her father steps when it comes to maintaining their autonomy.
A lot of people started to badmouth her on us forums calling her Mary Sue - no matter how many times they repeat it, it won’t become true (Althought I should probably discredit them all for writing elsewhere that Zandalari are slavers) Because she is not that powerful, nor she is this amazing to ando any damage nor she knows everything. Just because she had intuition that told her that Zul and Jak’razet are up to no good isn’t enough to call her Mary Sue.
The pandering over her from Horde NPCs is imo too much, but character itself didn’t show anything that could be a basis for US complains, nor I think she should be blamed for her father’s death as character itself wanted to avoid it at all cost.
I felt really sorry for her and voice actress did portrayed nicely, her grief and terror in voice once she realized that the main city is besieged with her father on his own.
But I digress.
It wasn’t a requirement to lure out the bulk of the Zandalari forces out of the city, it was just to make the job a lot easier. The remaining forces within the city (including the spirits/undead what were raised to help defend as well) were still swept aside by 10 or so ships worth of troops.
The point (however stupid it may be) was to get the king to surrender, not to raze the city to the ground and not to kill as many people as possible.
It is hard to say if there was no diversion, even if the Zandalari forces were to all be present in the city the Alliance tactics would have most likely changed and the navy uncontested would just bombard the lower parts of the city into oblivion to kill as many troops as possible.
Somewhat yes, but it would be more towards the fact that both navies would have been heavily damaged. I find it hard to believe that some catapults could outrange a cannon, especially on the galleys of the Kul’tiran ships (which would have been used properly if they still carried on with the assault and not set up and bombs to destroy the Zandalari ships).
What is remaining of their armies, they have been under siege twice and can’t really do anything with their armies considering they are trapped on an island. Without a navy to transport them they are useless and Elegy/Good War hard counters portals so that is out of the question.
And on the Alliance side of the questing you do kill a sizable chunk of the invading force and I would hope so. If the Alliance are sending in their 7th Legion, Void Elves and a 25k experienced commander to lead them then I hope they would at least do some decent damage to the attacking army.
It is funny how you should link the Japanse navy, I could pull examples as well from the Japanse navy when they tried to take on the USA in WW2 to counter balance this out.
Smaller navies can take out bigger navies, but they are few and far between. The odds of this aren’t in your favor if you are relying on rare cases like these.
That is all what Kul’tiras needed, they still have the bulk of their navy most untouched and undamaged. As well as any of Ashvane’s navy after she surrendered.
The Zandalari have been bleeding from every aspect of their military, from ground forces to the navy. That is why I put them so far down on the list.
Tauren, as in both the Bloodhoofs and all the clans under it and the Highmountain?
It was. They mention it during the raid that they have to hurry because the Horde and Zandalari forces could be back any moment. After Rastakhan was dead they had to run for their money and let Gelbin and jaina stay back to allow forces and fleet having more time to retreat. If the Horde would have caught up just in time, the Alliance would have been defeated on their way out.
But they aren’t united under a banner tho? Haven’t seen enough of them that it would make a difference. Unlike the Alliance allied races, the Nightborne, Highmountain and Mag’har yet haven’t brought their full power into the war. So I am only talking about casual Tauren in this list.
After the japanese destroyed pearl harbor and the majority of the fleet and aircrafts of the USA, the USA pulled in fulltime for the war and had themselfs recovered in record time, and finally defeated the Japanese at seas alter on. Reminds me of the BfA situation between Zandalari and the Alliance. I think this will backfire for them. (The A-team)
I meant more towards the lines of if the main army was there then the plan would change.
Well, when you just put “Tauren” it makes you question whether they mean all Tauren or just the original race Tauren.
They damaged a lot, but nor destroyed. There is a massive difference. And the Japanse failed to target the supply/fuel and maintenance facilities which allowed the US navy to recover so quickly.
Didn’t clear I this up already in the offtopic topic? Yes, this is me, with my new Alliance main. Since Dwarfs are the only worthy Alliance race to play as
I find it hard to believe, because Alliance retreated the moment main army returned. Sure Jaina could tell that “we weren’t running away, just luring you to trap!” but Blockade boss said otherwise - it’s purpose was to block any pursuit and let them escape the main confrontation.
I think Alliance would be stopped from reaching the king. Because as I said the majority of army was lured away and the remaining few forces that were left still were a massive trouble for Alliance to pass through.
They could’ve bombard the lower city part, but not the upper ones, if they’d dock in the port the remaining fleet could reach them and clutch them at bay.
So yeah, here is why I disagree with you.
The only comparision I have is the Zandalari cinematics that are at Horde intro (with Rezan) and the one at the start of Dazar Alor raid where Zandalari ships were already bombarding Alliance and Kul Tiran ships before they could even respond.
The Kul’Tiran example I have is the Siege of Boralus where we see Kul’tiran ships bombaring the ones from Ashvane, and they’re at very close range. RL comparable range.
Their army is still massive comparable with Horde’s armies combined. I did the quests and the surge of soldiers, stone golems, pterrodax riders was really impressive I don’t recall seeing single faction pulling such a big numbers. even on Kul’Tiras I didn’t wtiness them mustiring such a force on their own. From Horde perspective each time they were assisted by Alliance army, - usually Lightforged.
So even when witnessing 2 invasions they’re the force to be reckoned with. But I agree with you that having less ships makes their army weaker on logistics.
I only used it as example that it is a possibility for Zandalari to take revenge given the right circumstances. I don’t claim that it will happen or that in RL this is a trend. Just sayin’ that it’s not impossible.
Yeah and I disagree, because Kul’Tirans besides ships don’t really offer anything else that would mindblow you. Nor their army is as formidable and as massive as Zandalari one.
They have most ships intact but they still got some heavy blows. Starting with Ashvane sinking 5 (at least thoseI counted in instance).
And losing another 5 to one Zandalari ship during Jaina encounter.
They have an edge ship wise but not when it comes to power itself.
That was because there objective was completed, it was failure but still.
There was no reason to stay in the city once the Rast’ refused to surrender and was killed, so they just retreated from it as there was nothing else to gain. If we wanted to properly delay your approach then we would destroy as many things back to the docks as possible.
Fair enough, it is not really worth arguing whatifs.
The intro-cinematic was more towards the Alliance being caught off-guard if anything. The intro also shows the Zandalari ships one shotting the Alliance ones yet don’t in 8.1 so w/e who needs consistency.
I dunno’, it just seems logical to think that cannons can outrange catapults.
That is more because it is their hometurf. We have yet to see any other race (I guess besides the Night Elves in the WoT) be in such a state where they are defending their main homeland.
And the Kul’tiras army is basically destroyed. The coven basically wiped out most forces in Drustvar, the Naga, Quillboar and Horde wiped out the Stormsong army (the ones which were still loyal and not rebelled to join Queen Azshara). Tirisgarde sound is being attacked by pirates, more naga, Lady Ashvane in open revolt and hostile etc…
All Kul’tiras has left is the royal/capital guards and even then the city has been undersieged once (twice if you count the Horde incursion)
I know but at that point then anything is possible really.
It is at least important enough to not be overlooked. Especially when there has been massive focus on both of theirs.
Luckily they still have plenty left.
At this point I just skim read points at best unless I wanna engage in it.
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