If you spend 2-3 hours per raid day walking back after your entire group wiped, that’s a massive skill issue
also lol @ the vibe from that post “i just want to spawn in front of the boss every time so i can kill it immediately in one shot because anything more than a one shot is a waste of time”
Actually… The majority of players do LFR. Morgan Day said so just a few days ago.
And it makes sense. Raiding is and always has been a niche activity. So most people who still want to experience that content will take the most accessible option to do so.
Pretty sure they’re talking about actually “relevant” difficulties that have a tiny tiny bit of difficulty, not afk simulator
I do LFR myself sometimes but you have to be honest that it’s easier than a +0 lol, if half the raid group is afk it’d still work
That’s not the point I’m making. You can be disparaging all you want about LFR; the fact remains it’s the MOST USED raid option.
I’m not disagreeing, I’m just saying that I am pretty sure they were comparing “actual” difficulties, LFR is sort of its own thing really
I’m confused. Who is ‘they’ and why is this relevant?
It was a reply to one of my earlier posts that I was now replying to in return.
I wasn’t ‘comparing’ anything.
I’m not sure what you’re misunderstanding, also your response was towards Netsjerian, since you had to tell them that LFR was the #1 difficulty to be played, all I did was say that they probably meant actual proper difficulties and not LFR
I really dont get what you’re misunderstanding lol, you seem to somehow take this as an attack of some sort, while it really isnt
Well thanks, but I think Netsjerian is quite capable of answering themselves if that’s the case.
I’m just confused on how any of that is relevant. Netsjerian stated something; I heard a different statement from an actual developer. So I gave that information.
And I get what you’re saying, but it doesn’t change anything about my reply. Right?
So, I guess: Thanks for your input.
Yes. But you probably missed the part “who is interested in raiding”.
Like sure, the majority of players is in the game for the story and exploring and stuff. But in a way in that case we can call literally everything in the game “niche”. So that word does not hold any value.
I mean that kind of goes likewise xD and surely they are capable, but this is a public forum so anyone can respond right ? I’m not sure why it sounds like a crazy thing to you that I just said that they probably meant actual raiding difficulties and not the loot conveyor belt
But you do you, you really seem to have taken this as a personal attack somehow while it wasnt the intent, but that’s okay
About that, I’ve always been thinking that the “CM:Gold” system was the best; Mythic+ should be from +1 to +X same item level, and increased difficulty; and the rewards should give extra chance of socket or speed/leech/avoidance plus ilvl out of M+, cosmetics, and other limited reward stuff.
That way, player’s skill would matter rather than ilvl; rewarding with more “in m+” power those who push high, and also giving them this extra ilvl for regular content out of m+, the same way as PvP upgrades work.
This would help players to try out new classes and specs without having to deal with the gear catch up mess, and give the M+ player a reason to push further for more secondary stats; and also, giving players a reasonable way to measure their skill instead of measuring their ilvl.
It is a fact that nowadays, a 440+ player can time 20s without even being good, just carried by the itemlevel, where as a 420+, even if you play perfect, you underperform by huge (DPS wise, almost 0.5 as a person with +20ilvls from you, increasing this gap exponentially as the highest ilvl “cap” increases).
I think that WoW needs to be more casual friendly, but also, needs to reward player skill above any other thing. And that system would reward both, and encourage players to actually learn to play the game.
No, because ‘niche’ is literally defined as: “interesting to, aimed at, or affecting only a small number of people”.
So anything done by the majority of the playerbase, by definition isn’t ‘niche’.
Alright, fair enough.
If you’re talking about that subset of players; you’re right.
Well, I take issue with you keep being disaparaging about it.
As if LFR is somehow lesser. While it ‘serves’ the most people.
You could have just told me what you told me, without shining a negative spotlight on LFR. So that makes me think in return: What’s their agenda?
Not personal. But an attack, yes. On LFR. And I’m not sure why that was necessary.
There is no agenda I even told you that I myself do LFR, not all the time but when I do get too lazy to pug I’ll just run it that week on alts, there’s no “lesser” but it’s undeniable that LFR is not on the level of difficulty of HC/Mythic for example, you can say that to a certain extent even normal mode has difficulty, while LFR is basically the “easy” mode, once again, there’s no lesser, it’s just that as they mentioned, if someone says that they want to get into actual raiding, I am pretty sure they dont mean LFR, they mean any of the difficulties above LFR, LFR can be queued up right from the get go once you reach the ilvl necessary, there’s not really any “preparation” to it
Of course. And if you had put it THAT way, I would’ve felt differently about your reply.
But instead you used terms such as:
Anyway… Your last reply sounds a lot nicer. And I agree with what you’re saying in it.
So let’s just say this is ‘resolved’. 
I mean the loot conveyor belt was mostly a joke as to how easy it is, but glad you got my point, you have a good one : )
I’m guessing it did. Ever since M+ has been introduced, guilds have had a more difficult time maintaining a raid roster over the duration of a patch, or even simply more difficulty getting everyone in their guild enthusiastic enough to do the raid more than two or three times. Guildleaders/officers have regularly mentioned this ever since Legion.
For quite a few players M+ has (partially) replaced raiding as a means to get better gear. It’s easier to organise, can be done whenever you want and whenever is convenient for you. I’m guessing it suits a large portion of the playerbase better.
I don’t think that is necessarily a problem. It’s only a problem if you look at participation in raids, cohesity of (raiding) guilds and such, M+ has eroded some of that no doubt. Maybe raids need a different approach, an overhaul in mindset towards them.
None of this would make me raid more.
I’m not too fond of raiding or mythic + in this game. The experience of just signing up for a raid is terrible.
I’m a player who doesn’t do meta, who doesn’t read guides, who doesn’t want to download add-ons, who plays what classes they want when they want and in what content they want.
If people wanted me to raid, the raiding sign-up process would have to be made far more accessible and far more friendly to non-meta specs like the FF14s approach. The community is way to trigger happy even in normal dungeons to kick people for anything they dislike.
Putting cosmetics in this content wouldn’t make me raid more nor would it make my experience of the game more enjoyable as I like questing, being in the open world and levelling my characters.
If you want to save raiding suggest making it a more accessible and casual piece of content where people can just jump in and out of specific boss fights like Ff14s trials instead of having to get a guild group or pug of 20 people you don’t want to talk to after a busy day at work.
I am afraid this is not Classic where OP’s thoughts would find more understanding. Lately I have been seeing a lot of classic-like ideas to appear here. I thought you guys like to keep the game versions separate on the forums?
You didnt see patch notes ot some intervieuws right? Catalyst will open from the day the patch is going live, except now you only get a charge every 2 weeks instead of every week.