Not too sure if the initial comment was aimed at me or at those who host HR groups ( I haven’t done so ever )
When I said “there’s no way around it”, I meant as a community, there’s no way around it, because a big percentage of the playerbase are loot-oriented, you can’t reason with them, they’ll claim that you should just join a guild, otherwise it’s a singleplayer game
You should know this by now, there are very few good-willed people around, times have changed
Ive seen legit trinket drop each run😅
But now to the point.
Im against gdkp. But i think hr is fine in clssdic to be honest.
I did like 40 runs rend runs for my mh weapon on warrior.
20 were none hr groups and i lost mh 3 times to rogues.
So the last 20 i hr the mh untill i got it.
Guldie hr mh and had to do 104 runs untill it dropped. So yesh i would say if no hr existed god knows how many hours or runs you would have to do before you get it😅
Respectfully, I don’t see a point of these real life comparisons. You aren’t allowed to commit murder in real life either, yet the game literally incentivizes you to do so in game. We need to seperate reality with fantasy that we’re escaping into in this game. Group content is the cornerstone of an MMORGP game, based on consensual understanding between party members that they’re all there under a set of rules agreed beforehand but that aren’t in conflict with the overall set of rules designed by the game (ToS). So without trying to sound rude, why should you get to interefere with that core aspect of gameplay and tell me I’m not allowed to make my own rules for the group I’m forming simply because you think it makes your time getting a spot in group harder? I’m not calling you out here in particular, you seem level headed, but there’s a certain level of selfish entitlement in that way of thinking that I really dislike and that’s ironically what players who advocate against HR are accusing of those who are in favor of it.
Now, you mentioned GDKP as a similar example of why HR should be banned. For GDKP, there was a fair argument made that it incentivized a lot of people to break ToS by obtaining in-game currency for real life money. Personally I think it was a lazy approach instead of tackling the problem directly, but I don’t deny it has merit. There is no such thing regarding a HR run organized by a legitimate player who invites willing participants though, so the two are not comparable.
Lastly, I don’t think HR ban would make organizing groups with limited classes/specs allowed in any harder at all. You are underestimating the wilingness of players to find the path of least resistance to their goals. There are 8 classes in each faction, getting a 5-man group together where you get to choose who to pick and get a group going fast without having much if any competition for loot at all is not as hard as you think it is for the same reason getting a HR run isn’t. Different ruleset, same mindset, nothing would change.
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Thats actually already happening as a secret rule lmao also even if you want to invite people wont join the run the moment they see 2 more people competing for their loot
I just logged in from my workplace to give you my personal blessing on that proposal. If you are getting married over this fr, please let me take part!
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Both mindsets are bad. I make my own groups all the time and personally enjoy tanking dungeons. It does not make me more entitled to loot over any party member. A couple nights ago I invited another warrior and a hunter for Stratholme. We did 4 runs together and I lost the cape twice that I also need. Did I cry about it? No. I said gz to them and because we had fun in the group they joined the next night and I got the cape too. That is what wow is designed for. Not ‘‘gz me cya losers’’.
I recommend that you spend more time being social and making friends in game because you are only trolling your own account if no one wants to play the game with you in a months time. Have at least a shred of empathy for others, make some friends and its only a matter of time before you get the items you need.
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you could have had the same fun and loot if you invited people that didnt need ur loot though
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True. But that is not the point I was trying to make. I mean HR items and using master loot in particular. And again, it is not something I am salty over personally, but I can see a lot of people getting really annoyed about this HR stuff and it just needs to stop imo.
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You realize all 3 of you just got insanely lucky, right? I’ve run StratUD around 20 times before my red hat dropped, and in that time I have not seen a single cloak drop, all the physical classes running with me were basically resigned to running the place to exalted before getting it. With no “bad luck protection” like in more modern titles, the vanilla design practically begs for player imposed bad luck protection instead, i.e. HR.
In my view HR is a great thing. It’s basically a two letter shortcut for “okay fellow mage, I will invite you to this LBRS run as long as you agree to pass on the Hands of Power. I’ve been farming them for a week now and can’t bear losing them again to a healer high on dps spec hopium. You can still come along and try to get Skyshroud Legs and any of the key gems you may need.” In stead of typing that out you just say HoP HR and that sentence is what is implied.
The alternative, like others said already, is not inviting competing classes, as was standard in Vanilla and to a lesser extent Classic.
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Ofcourse Nicolay is pro a cancerous behaviour that is killing the community 
you always are… like GDKP/Boosting/RMT and all that other nasty stuff that creates toxic environment.
HR didn’t exist in the healthy gaming days… when gaming was about fun, lore, fantasy, immersion, the community the social interactions and about having a good time.
I see and talk to those individuals that rush through content, HR stuff because of FOMO, boost/pay2win in order to get ahead… these people can’t function without the carrot infront of them. Next phase, next expansion, fast, fast…
No one of those is happy or actually has a fulfilling time. That’s why that mindset is needed ofc, if you and those narcissistic people actually took your time you’d feel the emptiness you created yourself and that’s a gut wrenching feeling. So it’s better to ignore it and keep on creating ur own misery and a toxic environment for everyone around 
h
Well I have had another 3 capes drop since and obv passed on it to other dps. I really do not see what the huge problem is with rolling on gear. The amount of times you have done the dungeon and lost the roll is irrelevant. Life is not meant to be easy and neither is wow.
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You fail to see the reason why those methods of playing appear.
GDKP was basically just a shortcut to access botted gold from other gold buyers. People l ike to choose the path of least resistance, just like the classic devs knew. Vanilla wow is a very time consuming game, of course people will want to minimize the grind and attempt to maximize the fun part of the game. Blizzard making the content at a 2x rate would have made this even worse.
Boosting is also almost a necessity depending on your class. Only mages, warlocks and priest that can spellcleave(Which seemingly has a higher skill floor than most classic wow gamers can manage), or ravager cleave with war/pala/shaman, have access to a decent leveling experience. If you have leveled through questing once you’ve practically done all the quests, there aren’t enough quests in the game for you to have different routes beyond the starting zones. Not to mention if you want to play with friends questing becomes an even worse experience due to lack of shared quest rewards and having to wait several waves of spawns for everyone to finish.
Before HR became a norm people would still reserve items, HoJ, Ironfoe, Baron cape and UBRS items were common. However people would also refuse to invite classes that needed the same gear(Which they still do btw), essentially HRing every single item they could need from the dungeon.
You call it HR. I call it begging random players to boost you for free.
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Rng will be rng. I remember helping quite a few melee dps get their cloak and it wasn’t a very painful affair. On my hpriest it took over 30 runs to get that (insert some swearing here) blue dress, on my hpally it dropped the first time. So I do get the frustration when something just refuses to drop lol.
It was you that was different, Vanilla had it’s own sweaty metas and cancerous practices, you were just a fresh eyed noob and didn’t see it at the time, (and neither did I for that matter), but it was there. Why do you think the Onyxia 50DKP- video exists.
The roles were much more rigid, clearing dungeons was 4 hour adventure of tediousness with triple redundant safety and full prot tanks with shields. Guilds did trial and error raids with jaelosly guarded strats and poaching of skilled players for gold or even irl incentives was common (even more so in tbc).
If I organise a group for a dungeon that I need an item from and my sole motivation is the item, why would I take my chance?
For instance, you need MH Rend sword and there are 2 rogues and another warrior rolling for the item, would you say that 1/4 of a chance is worthwhile of your time given the drop rate is also low?
Those random players join you for their own reasons.
Banning people for HR? What kind of clown are you? HR is how the raid leader lets people know they are after a certain item so if you need it to, you are wasting your time. Many people will run dungeons like Rend/UBRS 100 times and when you are constantly rolling again 4-5 people and lets say your item drops 10 times you have a pretty solid chance of coming up empty handed after 100 runs.
More serious people will spend the time to search for Jed ID - which takes time - then either find a key to open UBRS or have bothered to farm it - then put together a run with a bunch of clowns like you with the goal of completing the place without issue.
People also sell healer/tank services - Strat Live Orb Res. Not everyone has a mage to aoe farm a dungeon for funding. You can spend 2 hours running around herbing and make 20g. Or you can sell your effort you have put into your toon in learning and gear to provide a top tier healer or tank service and get a 40g orb or a few in 30 minutes.
Your just a low effort player expecting the same rewards of high effort players. No one forces you into HR runs.
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We all remember the epic mount.
Thats a awful outlook, people will make decisions in life that increases there chances of succeeding and also setting reasonable goals. Not to mention the people who put in more effort in personal and career development succeed. Let me guess, we need to be making quality resumes because its unfair for lazy people? Everyone is forced to make a indeed employee profile and thats all you get.
I did not say ban accounts for HR. I also said nothing about selling tank/healing services. It is up to you who you invite to a group. No need for the spitefulness and hostility. You either agree with HR or you don’t. And I am confused what high and low effort players you are referencing. I guess you mean the level 58 rogues HR the mh. You said it yourself ‘personal goals’. You don’t care about anyone other than yourself. You are the clown.