The recent buffs to bm hunter have been good. Solid buff. I always think hunters should be around 5 to 7k in terms of raw dps below the top spot. As mobility accounts for that.
Now i don’t think we should get huge cc and defensive abilities like dh. Something like a .5 sec knock up. Just to make hunter worth bringing in higher keys would be nice.
Overall our raid spot is looking good with the recent buffs. Its good.
No it’s not.
Also our uncapped aoe, aka the only good thing about BM atm is getting gutted next patch.
Clown company.
So you only look at BM and then talk about all 3 specs as if they are as mobile as BM.
Mages are getting a lot of movement next patch firemage will be more mobile then MM hunter by a long shot.
And i can guarantee mages would not agree that they should not be able to get top spot with gaining the mobility.
And good thing blizzard does not have your view of things as then melee never should be top dps on rankings.
No it is not because of not having raid utility with so many spots locked by classes and specs with raid utility hunter is at a very bad disadvantage for raid spot.
Like example the Debuff from DH if the damage from it showed up as DH damage DH would 100% of the time be the top damage dealer.
I started in december 2021, and the AoE of Bestial Cleave was never uncapped, the tooltip in my French UI is still the same : max damage up to 5 targets, diminishing returns up to 8 targets, zilch beyond that.
I don’t get where you saw that the Cleaves were ever uncapped.
The Stomp on the other hand affects everything in its (relatively small) radius, with the problem that it happens at the exact moment when you launch a Barbed Shot, and if your Familiars are not in the thick of a pack, they stomp your feet, or worse, aggro adds on the way to the main fight.
But Bestial Cleave uncapped ? Never seen that, in my admitedly limited experience.
Beast Cleave was always limited, this is about kill cleave, a passive thats connected to beast cleave.
Can you link the patch notes. Because BM is not in the 10.1.5 for class changes. Its mostly mage. Pretty much a mini rework for them.
Yes hunters are blasting…
The class is is dire need of damage buffs AND some sort of raid utility. It was the only class not present for the world first kill of Aberus.
What dishonest screenshot is that where the details are cropped out? When I pull recent stat MM is doing quite well. Talk about bias in selecting to prove a point.
And oh no, not represented for a world first kill! Clearly underpowered!
Actually, come to think of it, theres only one person that keeps bleating on that this matter, hi sausage!
On mythic right now MM is the second worst dps spec in the game on overall where are you getting that they are doing quite well?
That is on overall % and on 99 percentile.
On max MM is 6th from the bottom (aka 19th spot) on warcraftlogs right now so i question where you get your information from.
Ah i guess i have an idea you are cheery picking yourself here as on Max on heroic logs MM is number 9 and on 99th percentile it is 12th (ironically mages complaining like crazy as if they are the worst class ever is higher then all hunter specs with 2 specs on the same logs (99th percentile and they still have the top spot in max)
And on all heroic logs mm is 13th.
And on heroic MM is the highest hunter spec.
If you are going to tell that person they are doing something dishonest you might want to actually look at the numbers yourself before you do.
I wonder where you have the numbers that shows that MM is doing quite well
These are hypothetical fights with 0 movement. In terms of raw output, yeah demo lock pumps and number one dps in the world is a demo lock but here is the thing. Those are the top 1% of players. Your average demo lock won’t be that high. Probs around 110k single target. Our guilds dps groupings are pretty close. Cause you know what. We are not the top 1%. Most of us parse blue and sometimes people parse purple.
Some classes are way more punishing if you make a mistake. Demo lock, arcane mage and so on. I can tell you this now. Blizzard will never balance around what 1% of the player base is doing. The DPS for the bulk of the player base is way closer than you think.
Been looking out for some views on Hunter performance and I gotta say i’m really confused. Probably more confused than I have been in when considering what class to move on to for damage (I wanna move from Rogue, why? I am simply losing touch on it).
Is it really this… ‘bad’? I mean this is the first time I see on this forum that actually has a thread dedicated to the positive and it is being basted as a troll thread. Not saying this will motivate my choice, but it is a bit staggering.
Hopefully the number of great performing hunters i’ve seen and healed in what keys i’ve done aren’t fluke or figments of my imagination.
Hunter is below average, generally pretty bad. This is assuming equal skill/gear.
This is just because skill is an infinitely more important factor than class balance. A good hunter is going to do miles more damage than a weaker x class above it. This is why it’s more important to focus on improving gameplay than worrying too much about class balance.
Apparently I’m an idiot, I clicked the last tier, sorry!
Seems logical to me that they would share the same limitations, since they are also both triggered by the same Talent …
But I’m not a Dev.
THIS is the answer to everything.
I won’t, ever, say that I’m the best out there, because I’m clearly not and I’m still learning, but the only spec I know well enough is the Beast Master Hunter.
And when my combat logs, parses etc show me doing more damage than a Warlock and Shadow Priest combined in a +12 keystone, while they have 10+ iLVL higher than mine, I know why : I’ve learned to optimize my rotation, I know when and why I should do X thing, I learned the very hard way (by getting squashed too many times) where I should place myself and when I should use my Defensives, and they clearly have not yet mastered all the nuances of their chosen spec.
Player skill and knowledge always makes the difference, even with extremely sub-par non-meta deliberately chosen gear, Talent build and spec, a top-notch player will get better results than any other player that does not YET knows all the nuances, tricks and hidden bonuses of their chosen spec, on top of the strategies and tactics to use (and when) in dungeons and raids.
I’ve done it myself once or twice, in the few dungeons I know by heart, and I’ve seen a couple of exceptionnal players solo Bosses in M+16 dungeons while we “lesser beings” just watched in awe after getting swatted like flies.
All the hunter specs could be resumed to “easy to learn, hard to master”, yes indeed as a BM hunter my basic rotation is only 3 keys to press (with some “reactions” like Interrupts, Fears, Soothes, Multi-shots, etc), but knowing when to press those keys is the vital point.
In general it is like this but a Hunter BM, which oscillates between C and D as class rank (they are arbitrary ranks but if all the classifications agree with the same position, there will be a reason) can never compete with the usual overpowered class. You can have all the skill in the world but if you compare yourself with a player who plays as well as you such as a Priest shadow or a Paladin there is no comparison.
It goes without saying that the Hunter in this time, even if you have classified him as Average .and you have been kind, in my opinion is also a step below.
Well yeah that’s why the whole thing I said was ‘skill is a more important factor’. Clearly if the skill is exactly equal then the absolute turbo-overpowered meta specs like SP are going to do more, that’s a big reason why they are meta.
Indeed, with knowledge of the instance, of the spec, and the “ingrained” reflexes being equal, there are nothing a Hunter can do to even approach the damage performance of some of the most overpowered specs at the moment.
But I don’t think it’s a problem with the Hunter specs, but rather a very nasty and hard to correct overall balance problem between all the specs in this game at the moment.
I’m not a game dev, even if I did code some very basic “full text adventures” decades ago, but I realize that for a game like WoW with 20 years of existence, patches upon patches, tons of extensions, 12 classes with 2 to 4 specs each, 24 playable character races, and the freedom of customisation of the Talent trees, reaching “perfect equilibrium” is virtually impossible.
There will always be some specs that are soooo much better than others, and it will always change over time, it was already like that back in the Auld Tymes of Ultima Online in 1997.
Shadow Priests being total powerhouses at the moment does not mean that Hunters of all specs are bad, yes the class and specs need some tweaking, but a big thwack of the NerfBat on the overpowered specs feels more urgent.
It’s an old thing, going back to pen-and-paper RPGs in 1980ies : getting everyone to the topmost levels only creates more problems, because then you have to adapt the content to that topmost level, and more casual players cannot enjoy the game anymore.
Had to deal with that myself in a AD&D 2nd game I “directed”, I made the mistake of giving away a way too potent magic item to my mid-level party (around 11th), and that combined with the inventive brains of 5 players around the table led to Great Wyrm Dragons not lasting four combat rounds, the “arms race” was on between the players, and I had to resort to either destroying their magic items, getting out specifically tailored custom monsters, and other underhanded tricks.
All that resulted in a rather miserable experience for everyone involved : I was getting frantic trying to challenge my game buddies, and they were getting bored of the game.
We reached an agreement : stop there, retire those characters, restart fresh and don’t give away world-changing magic items Mr DM.
Much more enjoyment afterwards.
Back to WoW, it’s the same idea : SPs are the Most Efficient Tactic Available at the moment, but there are people (myself included) that cannot stand that spec, so the solution should be to “even things out from the bottom”.
Will people losing their SSS+ über rank gripe ? Oh yes !
Will the game get harder for everyone ? Yes, but that’s actually a good thing, more challenge means more enjoyment in most cases.
Having one or two powerhouses and everything else not being able to reach even half that performance is worse for a game (any game) than every combination being about equal in every situation.
But nerfing the powerhouses to oblivion is not the answer either, that just means another set of powerhouses will emerge !
I sincerely hope that the “higher ups” at Blizzard will take a good, long, genuine look at the current balance situation and find an acceptable solution for everyone.
I took it directly from icy-veins here:
And yes, people are sheep. No represensation sends a bad message as everyone seems to think they are in the 1% and absolutely cannot bring a class that is not only low dps, but doesn’t do anything other classes can do better.
Hunters are also squishy as heck, and die so easily to rot damage.
I can understand that it’s difficult for developers to balance classes and the many variables they have to take into account but when there is so much difference between one class and another it loses interest and I don’t find it right at all.
I’m old school and in my opinion it’s the skill that counts rather than the Op class.
But I would like you to evaluate a few things:
First, at least in my server, practically all guilds recruit people exclusively for raiding. I have no interest in raiding and it was enough for me to clear the Heroic content (I miss the last boss I will focus on next) and I prefer the M+.
Unfortunately in Pug the Hunter Bm is hardly taken in the 21-22 keys and when I asked for explanations to those who refused me, they answered me that the Hunter, at the moment, is a very bad class, or, in Tyrannical, that they needed classes with greater damage in St and the Hunter, unlike the first season, with build M+ literally does n’t perform in St damage.
They’re right…
A class that despite having Bl (99% of the time they invite you is for that) is however discarded because they prefer Evoker or Shammy enhancement which are decidedly more performing than the Hunter.
A class with mediocre defensive cds whose cooldown (see the shield) lasts a good 2.4 min while several other classes have decidedly cds which, in addition to being better, have a much lower recovery time
A class that while using the Bl to a boss, must then dismiss the pets to change the type and to have more life and additional defensive cd…
A class that doesn’t cure itself over time and that ALWAYS puts the curators to the hardest test who, even they, already normally struggle to cure.
A class that doesn’t have a buff to share with the group and is the main reason you aren’t invited to pug.
If this is to define the Hunter in a Godish Spot, you have to explain it to me…
Ah I forgot, let’s not mention the dps otherwise I’ll play the part of someone who always complains Xd