I am once again asking for more "safeguard rails" for new players in Mythic+

Community General Discussion
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The Situation - Horrible key attempts at times

[Link removed - even if it might not be the intention to name and shame, the names are still highlighted]

Edit in case of moderation: No, those players aren’t exclusively at fault here. I am not shaming them for their inexperience. Just that the game doesn’t prevent them from having bad experiences. That’s not what they pay for. That’s not what I pay for.

Tank and I did 65% of the entire dungeons damage. The group died 41 times in that run. It took 59 Minutes and 29 Seconds to finish this instance. 8 Minutes of those the group kept wiping over and over again at the first pack because 2 of 3 DDs never used an interrupt (for the record, I was the one interrupting of the DDs).

I repeat again, it took 59 Minutes and 29 Seconds for this Dungeon. That’s ca. 25 Minutes longer than it should have taken on average.

Sure, we could have left the group, but at 2 AM there aren’t that many groups searching for a specific key, so it was basically make or break. At several moments the Tank and I considered to quit the run, but we always managed to push further.

By the time we reached the 2nd boss (the Storming Boss) we were already at 4 Minutes remaining (remember, the key has like 42 minutes from the start).

And the worst of it all is, this was JUST a +2 key.

The Issue - Players not ready for that activity trying to participate

Look, I know it sucks to get told to come back later when you got better gear and grind some Heroics and M0 first, I myself was there 1-2 weeks ago and it was very annoying. But I really think such players wouldn’t attempt harder content if they would get told beforehand that they aren’t ready yet gear-wise.

And before someone comes in here and say “I’ve been tanking it on 460 ilvl, what you talking about”, oh shut it! There are always a few exceptions and those are never the rule for everyone else.

As I experienced first hand myself, those players need more safeguards so they don’t waste their own and our time with setting up groups for content they aren’t ready for.

It was very quickly clear that both the other DDs weren’t that good at their rotation, with the Warlock later on stabilizing a bit during the boss fights. They also didn’t seem to know the mechanics for the first boss at all.

The Solution - Add proper explanations to the Adventurer Guide - Update Mythic Key Tooltip | Display recommended Item Level on Group names (even if not written by the host)

Every encounter of a Dungeon should have clickable, more detailed explanations. Perhaps even with a video example like Overwatch ability previews work in the character sheets.

All players should see a recommended entry item level for the key they try to do / list up for. The Dungeon Finder has this already when you are too low for heroic dungeons. It literally tells you something like:

  • “Current Item Level: [Value] | Required Item Level: [Value]”

Here, proof of it, if you don’t believe me.

https://imgur.com/a/csq0T0D

Add a similar text section to each mythic key that recommends the minimum item level you need to be on the numbers scale, just as Blizzard did for the heroic dungeons.

Alter the text to reflect that. Also, put on group posts a “recommended item level” label, so every player knows that they should be at least that high to participate.

See it like a height check for a Rollercoaster. If you are too small, the seatbelt won’t hold you and you will likely injure yourself. Those safeguards exist for a reason.

Same can be applied to Mythic+. If someone isn’t ready for that content, they should be told that. Not by us players after trying the key but by the game instead before they list up.

Also, the game should have a tutorial point to the Isle tutorial to explain item level and what it means too.

With that being said, rant over. I go to bed now. It’s 4 AM here.

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This assumes that players who are as bad as you describe care about reading Adventure Guide, Mythic Key Tooltip and group description. They don’t so this wouldn’t help.

The solution is simple - you get obliterated by the first pack twice, you leave the group. It is the most considerate thing to do for everyone’s time.

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Not super helpful, especially when trash mechanics don’t appear on the journal. Maybe if Blizzard revised their tutorials to teach new players what interrupts and dispels are.

No, even though when making the group I would appreciate if they updated the recommended ilvl to not be season 1 numbers, putting it on display even if the owner doesn’t want to isn’t helpful.

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And that wasn’t your first hint to just leave the key?? If anything you wasted your own time by staying. I much prefer that it’s clear from the start they key is going tot take too long so that I can bow out.

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For the record :

Your comp was… a mage, a lock, and a RDruid.

Those 3 specs, while “meta” at high keys ALL have long CD interrupts. The only reason they “work” in higher keys is because the tank is a VDH. And a skilled VDH (emphasis on skilled) takes over much of the interrupting required for DF dungeons.

So. If you want to play with those classes you have to take into consideration that it will require an extra step of coordination.

Also, those 3 classes are super squishy. Unless played correctly, which is never the case in lower keys.

So, dont run with clothies unless you are all over-geared for the content and can shrug off a ton of damage that would otherwise one-shot you.

Next time, if you want a better time, go full melee. With a VDH (if possible, or a Prot Pala) and a RShaman if you can. Melee have a ton of AoE interrupts, short CD kick, and plate/mail gives extra HP and protection for the cases where something does go through.

You will have a much better time then.

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Squishy ? In what universe ? Locks can get like a 200% hp shield, mages with barrier+block and druids with bear form

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Read the follow-up phrase. All the things you say imply pressing some button. And pressing it BEFORE damage comes in.

A ret pala or warrior for example, can heal himself AFTER the damage comes in. Not to mention built in leech and vers melee classes tend to have.

So. If you apply that gameplay to a +2 key, where the expected skill of a player in that range is low (its what 2+ keys are for)… then you see where my “squishy clothies” come from.

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People who want to improve will improve. People who expect rewards for no effort will not. It’s season 4, every single bit of information they need is out there, they were just unable, or unwilling to get it. The solution is not spoonfeeding. Do what every reasonable M+ pug person would do. Insult them then leave immediately. Also, spending 59 mins in a dead key at 2AM - you deserve it.

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Leave sure, insult people ? Uneccesary.

I mean even you’re new… surely thats kinda obvious no ? Like, even I knew that back when I first started doing keys, sure, theres a slight learning curve as to when to press defensives during trash/bosses but like… after a few wipes surely you should know when damage comes in… Especially if the dungeon took close to an hour.

Although lock and dru does have instant heal, cookies and renewal, respectively, only mage dont have that, I dont think, not played mage at all

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I blame everything on the removal of the learning keylevels. Getting groups for M0’s is harder than for M+2 too.

But i would have liked an in build MDT. I am still trying to figure out how certain trash works (and the full details arent in MDT or on wowhead).

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Learning key levels used to be dead content and players who are this bad probably don’t even monitor their own performance through addons like details, so they’re not gonna improve.

In TWW they could add a solo challenge as prerequisite for joining M+, like a hard delve or gold proving grounds. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to force players to prove themselves before letting them loose onto group content. (But I also don’t think this is a major issue to begin with).

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This is the exact same as your ridiculous insistence that there should be an ingame manual.

You can write stuff in the dungeon journal (ingame btw!) and people don’t read it.

No, no, no.

This doesn’t account for overgeared people that don’t perform or people with less gear that perform well. It’s arbitrary and pointless.

One of the people on your rule breaking OP (hi naming and shaming) is 486. Perfectly reasonable for the content. What would seeing a “recoomended ilevel” have changed here?

Edit: Also, as an aside there is a grand total of 1 interrupt that needs to happen there and anyone could have done it and it doesn’t wipe you. I’ll wager what was killing you was the standing in the rain of arrows, the big mob frontal or the hornsounder getting its enrage cast off (needs stunning).

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I do not think a recommended ilvl would help much. All it achieves is that the community will block out anyone below that ilvl, while those who are above it will expect the run to succeed.

As much as the adventurer guide needs an update I do not think it will help. People find watching a 5 minute guide video a chore, so they definitely will not take a 2-5 minute pause before every boss to read through the guide.

Having proving grounds again and making it so that you need to do silver in your role to unlock dungeons would help more. Add tutorials in them that highlights the importance of defensives, crowd control, dispels and interrupts, and make them mandatory to succeed in doing silver, atleast the interrupt part.

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There is no correlation between ilvl and skill. This is the reason we have a score system for mythic plus.

I agree with the others that even more information in the game isn’t going to help. There are communities that are ideal for new beginners and other players will explain the important things.

There are also decent addons and WAs out there to help alert you when an important thing is being cast etc.

Depending on the make up of groups the damage will vary, sometimes I’m the biggest dps and other times I’m second/third, depends on what other classes are present or if I stupidly decide to suicide on a mechanic using my legendary :dracthyr_hehe_animated:

Some dungeons I feel like a constant utility bot but it makes things go smoother.

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It also does not help that we have less random procs to go about. With the unpruning a lot of classes got more control over their damage while the random damage instances were toned back. This will naturally result in more emphasis placed on doing your rotation and how you perform it.

The more player power increases, the more does the gap between those who know their opener and rotation, and those who do not. That is the only way I can imagine how some produce extremely small DPS numbers.

But this is something the game should teach you as you level by putting obstacles in front of you that makes you think an adapt on how to overcome it. Leveling currently is still so fast that you cannot really practise your rotation anywhere other than training dummies. Bosses in leveling dungeons do not live long enough for it either.

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510 dps sign up to key.

Look inside

150k overall.

:grimacing:

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Sorry to hear about your tough key. I think people would benefit from having to complete contemporary proving grounds before accessing certain key levels. Eg complete bronze to access a M2 etc.

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Isn’t this how they learn though? By dying and not timing the key? I can’t think of a more effective way.

The thing is… some people will never learn and there is nothing that can be done.
We learned by failing and playing the game. That is how most will learn.
I do think they are unaware that they don’t need to m+ to get a vault reward. M0’s and heroics work as well now.

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Reading up on their class and the dungeon beforehand.

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Getting theory into execution needs practise though.

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