While yes, that is true, not knowing anything beforehand is a very bad way to learn.
Not knowing anything is a bit of a stretch of course. The problem is leveling, questing, outdoor content or even normal dungeons and heroic dungeons do not learn you, or give the experience to play they way you are suppose to be.
I really would like to have something back where you can learn in a slow way again.
I think the major issue here is tunnel vision and inexperience
Even if you for example brought back the MOP challanges that let you score from copper to gold (role challenges not mythic dungeons) where you will simply fail if you don’t do stuff like interupt on the higher difficulties and demanded they complete it before they’re even allowed to open the LFG UI there is still nothing preventing players from just going back to tunnel vision and completely forgetting the interupt button even exists
the only way to get people to be more mindful of interupts is to expose them to more interupts outside of those dungeons
a yellow cast bar is only dangerous inside of a dungeon, so how could people new to dungeons know that the yellow cast bar is even capable of being a threat?
and then when it goes to completion and people lose health they don’t even associate it with the yellow castbar they just saw go to completion or they assume its just a part of the dungeon, unavoidable damage to give the healer something to do
Nothing is a danger until you get onto that level where suddenly danger exists
its a really big disconnect
1 Like
Didn’t read your post, but just wanted to add my 2 cents about M+ in DF season 4, whether it supports or goes against your arguement, it’s a suitable place to put this.
M+ is horrendous this season. It’s incredibly hard to get into. I missed a fair chunk of Season 3, and came back for season 4.
Even my main had work to do to catch up to get into +2s and 3s, I wasn’t even getting into M0s asa healer.
But some of my alts, who had 2.5k rating in Season 3, are still struggling to get geared up enough to get into keys and rely solely on getting “boosted” by running my own keys and hoping geared players sign up.
The increased difficulty of lower keys has been extremely bad for the game mode. There isn’t really an entry level to it anymore. I’m glad that there is no 2.5k reward this season, because I don’t really want to play it anymore.
1 Like
Keystone hero (2.5k score) is still available of course.
I mean… sure…
You presume the skill level of someone that belongs in a 7+ or higher.
A 2+ is the “level 1” of M+. Its the beginner level. The 1st step of a journey.
What tends to kill people are casts on them that are not interrupted. Not the major casts, like the “cackle” in BH, but the spammed “earth bolts”. To see those, you need a party frames, with the WA of targeted spells. With that, you can use deff-CDs in advance and not die to trash.
Its too much to ask, or expect, for someone that is in a 2+.
What you CAN ask is to use self-heal utility. That you can. Because the healer wont be a gigachad either at those levels. And if the whole party uses reactive survivability tools instead of proactive ones, then its much more probable to succeed in those key levels.
But doesn’t come with any reward (except I think I read it has a title, so no reward).
When i look at previous seasons in my achievement list there werent any rewards either. But i might be wrong. I was never that interested in the side-rewards like the ksm mount.
This is why solo queue would be more than welcome. Those who want to attempt high level content without anyone deciding whether they can or cannot, they can do so, but those who want an organized and experienced squad, they can do so via premade teams.
The entrance to any high level content needs to be as easy as possible. It’s only the content itself that should be difficult. That’s the beauty of any mmorpg, you explore, find something you cannot handle, you practice, gear up, level up and come back until you succeed. When there is a whole team with expectations and instructions for everything, it takes that joy of exploring the “unknown” away.
At 2.5k you unlocked the Season Hero Feat of Strength and got the Mythic animations on the seasons tiersets.
I usually enjoy M+, but I like to have an end goal. So 2.5k (or 2.7k for all the portals), was a suitable place to stop and either play a different class or get on and enjoy other areas WoW has to offer.
Had there been a similar reward this season, I would have pushed through it. But since there isn’t, and I haven’t enjoyed the start of this season, I don’t really see the need to continue.
The feat of strength is at least still there. I did not know about (mythic or any) animations.
Soloqueue would be nice, but it would be 28473795 minutes waiting time for DPS player on average so I guess thats why they didn’t create it yet.
Maybe they could add an extra incentive for roles that are hard to find (ie. higher chance of loot, more gold, etc.), but I don’t know if people would find that fair. I personally wouldn’t mind.
In the wow experience we have, the only effect caused by tank or healer role getting material bonus is that DPSers wanting to skip the waiting slog as those roles and switch back immediately to DPS. I also saw one Havoc DH trying to tank as boss was pulled in LFR before he finished switching.
And the biggest incentive for tank or healer currently is that you have 17564254 DPSers queing for your key, and you can handpick only the sweetest of sweet gigachad RIO WoWLogs guys.
Or you just play with your friends / guildies. Plenty of work for decent tanks and healers nowadays, with how tough a wall S4 is.
There are people in higher keys than max reward that presses their stuff after things go out or don’t press them at all.
Like I tried to do a +11 halls of infusion, the warlock pressed absolutely no defensives on khajin. The mage only used mirror images. Tank pulled when I had 60% mana, so we wiped due to that when I went oom, boss was also nowhere close to dead at that point. We went back and killed it when I had 100% mana but that warlock & mage… Holy… They seriously need to learn what defensives are.
1 Like
I hated having to jump through hoops before being allowed to do dungeons in WoD. Awful system.
I really don’t want to see that kind of barrier ever again. It was tedious as heck and had to repeat on every char. It did not make people play better, it was just a tedious barrier.
If it’s optional then I’m all for it but don’t make the rest of us suffer.
Maybe I am just lost on that balance philosophy, but isn’t that counterproductive in class design if some classes have longer CD on base combat features?
Do I look like a 
person that goes around, insulting people because of one bad experience?
In fact, after we were done I simple said “Seems like some of you aren’t ready for M+ yet” and left.
Yeah, another option would be to actually enforce mechanics and interrupts on heroic Dungeons so people can’t just ignore&damage the way through.
I personally am willing to take that risk.
Also, maybe my words have been misread… Said “recommended ilvl” wouldn’t show up anymore when you already reached it. The host of the key can’t even see it being displayed to other players, only on their own key (and again, only if they are below the recommended level). It’s basically a condition-based information display.
I can see it being annoying to some players… But I played FF14. And the dungeon tutorials there are very good. So, yeah. That could work too.
Not this again. It doesn’t matter if you have the skill or not. Without proper gear no skill in the world will save you from dying faster, eating more damage and doing less, Puny. I talked in length about this in a different post.
All the gear stats are account first and then they re-inforce your individual player skill by making your character class abilities better and stronger.
Then perhaps it is time for Blizzard to add an active “join learning communities” advertisement in the Adventurer Journal and the Group Finder tool. You know, actively encouraging socializing with people that know how stuff works.
WoW hasn’t been doing that in a while, sadly.
Exactly what I mean above.
All they learnt is that the Tank, Heal and I were struggling to carry them while they were constantly dying.
There was no learning process aside of maybe once in a while instructions from me or the tank when they completely the 
.
A learning process would be step by step. Not by us players guiding them on the run.
Outside of patch notes and weekly WoW news that change wasn’t communicated ingame well, so changes are they really don’t know it.
Agreed.
Have them redo it every expansion then on a single character. Also have them redo it on a single character if they were inactive for 3 months.
As I said above, that’s what heroic dungeons should do. Force interrupts and mechanics of bosses.
It would make classes too OP. Also the discussion of melee vs. ranged. Melee specs have more risks, but at the same time, have advantages.
One of which is a short CD interrupt (normally 15s). Ranged can have up to 45s CDs on interrupts.
I find it a good balance decision IMO. If melee are as tanky, and have the same advantages as ranged but with none of the benefits of being ranged… why would people even play melee then?
Yeah I agree, I didn’t like it either and it didn’t help anything
People complete ‘do the interupts’ because the UI tells them to interupt on the challange tank/dps/healer/whatever thing it was called, then go to the dungeons where the UI doesn’t tell them to interupt and then they don’t interupt and its as if they never did those challanges to begin with.
The Feat of Stregnth is still there. But the “reward” isn’t.
I don’t really find a line in a UI as motivation enough to push further in an appalling season.
Had the season felt more accessible to my alts, I would have invested more time into it and achieved that Feat of Strength numerous times over on multiple characters.
Fortunately WoW is a vast game, and in this season I can invest my time into something more rewarding, so I can look back through my collections in the future and remember that time I played a cool game and had fun.