It’s a tradeoff. Ranged specs usually have 20+ seconds cooldown on their interrupt because they don’t have to be in melee range to cast it (unless you are a shaman).
For balance druids and shadow priests it’s even longer because they have a silence baked into it.
I feel the same when you keep bringing up ilvl as if it’s going to magically fix that inexperienced players or bad players are going to magically learn to interrupt, not stand in things, understand tactics because their ilvl goes up.
It has nothing to do with ilvl. Practice, being taught, reading up is what improves the experience. Including what team make up to take for keys to ensure you can interrupt.
We suggest communities that are non toxic environments all the time. The onus is NOT on Blizzard to create these communities or promote them. Most of them are well known in the community. Some are even part of the Community Programme and they do get highlighted when they have activities going on because they’ve signed up to a Blizz initiative.
It’s no more Blizzard’s job to create communities than it is guilds. They do however provide people with the means to form them.
Which proves ilvl will not make keys work. Yet you insist they need ilvls requirements.
you have now very good learning mode.
its called m0 .
you can spend there now literaly whole day learning every nook and cranny of those dungeons without timer ticking.
And the old M0 is now Heroic. So gearing should be easier too.
which is - good too ?
like if you dont find m+ fun - take a break for couple of seasons.
like you said - game is vast there is plenty to do for everyone.
which it is . its just do annying that this season is so short that we have just 8 resets left .
combined with mop remix and cata there is just no time for alts in retail unless you are happy to just do +2 on them .
And I never said that, Puny. You are jumping to conclusions here again.
I say:
A player can have the best gear in the world and still suck very hard at the game. But their struggle will be much less hard than for a player that sucks the same way and doesn’t have the gear improving their character.
Again, simple math.
A character with 2k points more stamina will have XY value more HP
A character with 1k points more strenght/intellect/agility will have XY value more damage output by default.
A character with XY points secondary stats will have XY Percentage buffs to their crit chance/haste/mastery/versatility/etc.
Imagine it like having the different swords from Minecraft.
A player with a wodden sword will deal a lot less damage than a player with a diamond sword.
And after ALL THAT comes the game knowledge about your class, the activity, enemies, etc. And only if you master both, you will have the best chances to succeed.
You can win in the game by knowing nothing, having just the right (carry) team and your strong gear.
You can win also in the game by knowing everything, having just the right (carry) team and having your 
gear item level.
But if you have both, then you are basically a trained professional. A “qualified” player.
They could at least recommend communities that are verified by Blizzard. That would at least put some of those excellent communities on the forefront of the community page, making it easier to find them.
I am so close to throwing my keyboard at a wall.
I will make it very simple with math for you.
0 = Bad, 1 = Good, 2 = Perfect
Player with neither: 0 + 0 = 0 (Chances of Success)
Player with no Gear | with Skill: 0 + 1 = 1 (Chance of Success)
Player with Gear | with no Skill: 1 + 0 = 1 (Chance of Success)
Player with Gear | with Skill: 1 + 1 = 2 (Chances of Success)
You, as a player, want to have that 2. You don’t want to have just a 1.
It’s that simple. Just because a 1 works doesn’t mean you shouldn’t aim for the 2 instead. With a 0, you shouldn’t try even before you are ready.
It rewards only once a week so player play it only once a week.
Or would you voluntarily waste your time in an activity that rewards you nothing of value anymore?
Practice needs consistent training exercises, otherwise the training doesn’t stick. Playing a M0 once a week isn’t going to make you learn anything reliably.
And most average players don’t play more than maybe 3 alts. Some even like me just bother with 1 alone.
In the end you can limit your own groups’ ilvl if you want to (and choose applicants however you want). If you don’t like how others form their groups don’t join them, or just be more selective with that.
It would help if Blizzard would add a “Minimum Item Level” filter to the group search too.
We have one for Mythic rating, why none for the item level?
That’s too little on average.
For comparison:
Me
Tank:
Also the Cooldown uptime:
They both didn’t really do much.
I dunno. Even though there’s no cosmetic reward for KSM I felt I had to reach it this season to prove to myself I was capable of hitting that milestone. Some people might say 2.5k is nothing to write home about but idc, I’m proud I was able to pug-heal myself to that fos.
Like everything I feel this isn’t a black/white issue and the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Ilvl indeed helps to survive unavoidable damage, increasing the potency of my heals or the damage mitigation of the tank. Doing a +10 in 450 gear will never end well, even with the most skilled top 0.1% player behind the char. Very best case you just won’t do enough damage to time the key.
On the other hand having high ilvl means little if you cannot play your class properly, know when to use what CD or how to combine them.
RIO score means little when a player can hand over 1m gold and gets boosted through every key on a +8, which happens every day.
Conclusion: skill and ilvl go hand in hard. I’ll go even further, the gear you obtain is a reward for the content you beat and at the same time enables you to push further.
It’s a cycle.
There is no simple math.
Based only on HP. It does not matter if you have 800k HP (@490 ilvl). If you have 1M HP (@500 ilvl) or 1.5M HP (@522 ilvl).
That swirlie on the ground? Yeah… It still 1-shots you…
And that 1 mob that the tank forgot to aggro? It still 2-shot melees you.
Even with full 522 gear.
The discussion here is not about “performance” in DPS terms. Its about doing mechanics.
Which boils down to : Dont stand in the fire. Nothing to do with more or less DPS. If you dont die, you do more than enough dps by just randomly pressing keys in whatever order. At whatever ilvl.
And assuming that there are SOME abilities that one-shot you in a 2+ with 490 gear, but dont with 505 ilvl gear.
If your excuse to ignore that mechanic is “it wont kill me” then, once that individual does his 2+ and moves on to a 5+ he will find out that the particular ability one-shots him again.
Then he gets 522 ilvl gear. And then it dosent kill him. But he keeps ignoring it. So when he moves on to a 7+ he finds out it one-shots him one again.
And then he is hard stuck in 7+. And everyone playing with him comes to the forums to complain that people dont interrupt and need some tutorial to get into M+… see where im going with this? … 
So TLDR : So… gear … does… not … matter… It only delays the inevitable…
getting 2500 is most certainly achievement with season as hard and as short as this one.
ys some giga chads will tell you how lol easy it is - but reality of pugs is very very harsh .
and timing +10s is certainly big achievment this season.
a lot of people take like 4-6 months to get there in normal lenght season
Thanks! I got it yesterday and was quite happy indeed.
Wrong. So much wrong. The entire reason this run was 1h long WAS because the other DDs didn’t do in all the trash mob fights. I literally did almost 40% of the entire damage in the entire dungeon run.
Both the DDs did on average 40-60k damage, while I did consistently between 90-180k damage on every Trash pack. Not counting the tanks efforts here (without the tank, it would have taken 2h instead!)
In the boss fights they did quite ok-ish damage, they did follow the mechanics aside of the first boss where they had issues. The mechanics weren’t the problem.
I even said so in the main topic.
I never said they didn’t know them for all the bosses following after (which btw. aren’t hard to grasp).
Well, guess why they died? Because they stood in , they didn’t interrupt much (the warlock not even at all), they weren’t aware of how the trash fights have to be handled.
They simply went in and expected it to be a steamroll like Heroic dungeons where it is still a rariety with former M0 difficulty to die.
I never said anything else.
Why do you, Puny and others have so much trouble understanding that?
Having good gear, improve your success chances. Having the knowledge, improves your success chances. Having both almost guarantees the success.
And how many deaths were there? You said 41 times…
Because let me tell you, you can 100% time a 2+ with minutes to spare with the WHOLE party doing 40-60k DPS. I can guarantee you that.
You think trash packs dont have mechanics??? UHHHH you are SO WRONG there…
They DO, and they should be respected as much as any boss…
Like I said. If you want to rant about a bad group go ahead.
But if you want to generalize this situation : Dont play with clothies in a 2+. Where you KNOW people wont follow mechanics. Where you KNOW the tank and you (ret) will have to hard-carry all the interrupts.
Because even IF they wanted to do the mechanics, they would have been unable to do it.
And you dont tell the whole story. I want to know what the tank was doing because I have seen “grandour” tanks in 2+ making MDI pulls forgetting that the party does not have the skills, or ability to handle that many mobs.
You mentioned 8 deaths to 1st pack. What 1st pack? What dungeon? Because lets take HoI for example : First pack can be 3 mobs, where only 1 casts something of danger. Or… you can follow the “meta route” and chain 4 packs, with a total of 14 mobs, with 5 dangerous casts.
A 2+ is NOT a place to do MDI pulls. Or the “meta” pulls done on a +12. Its not necessary to time the key. So im not even surprised there were 8 deaths.
Yes you did. Right now. Let me quote you :
And il refrain for filling up the chat with other quotes stating that.
Stats wont make a person interrupt, stop standing in fire or do mechanics. That is what kills people, regardless of ilvl.
I don’t think you can quantify the impact of someone who has no clue how to apply their damage or use their CDs. No amount of ilvl or M+ rating (they collected via luck) will compensate for it.
We’re talking about someone who can’t play their character. Not in a specific dungeon, but in general.
I didn’t say that I don’t find M+ fun. I really enjoy M+.
What I said is that I don’t feel that it’s very accessible this season. It’s a lot harder to get on the ladder and start going.
That’s what has put me off getting into it.
Especially now tbh. Most people who were intent on doing m+ are already at a decent level. A lot of people also just didn’t bother this season ot just pushed to 2k for the mount and quit m+.
That leaves a less-than-normal number of player trying to get into +2’s/+3’s with either low gear or low understanding.
Meanwhile those that do m+ with alts won’t invite normally geared people for lower keys.
Exactly.
I joined the season 2 weeks late due to not being in the country.
So even with my main, that was fairly well geared and 2.8k last season before I went away for 4 months, struggled getting started.
My evoker that I didn’t have time to play in Season 3 and is still mostly in Season 2 gear has no hope of getting started.
I don’t want to raid LFR on multiple character, or sit in 45 min Heroic dungeon queues. I don’t have time for that! I want to get in an do M+ keys like I used to.
It feels like we’re heading back to compulsory content.