"I don't want to do hard content but I want high level gear"

I don’t understand folks who think like that. WoW is an mmorpg, notice the three letters at the end. RPG as in stuff like D&D or Pathfinder, you do stuff like killing monsters and doing quests, you get gear and levels: you get more powerful. You start off by saving the goat of Joe the Farmer from the local goblins, you end up defeating a lich or something.

Like it or not, rpg are built upon a reward system. Beating ennemies make you stronger, which allow you to move on to greater challenge, and so on and so forth. And that’s this core design principal that was then translated into video games when they started to make rpg for PCs and consoles.

And eventually, this same principle was applied when making mmorpgs, gaining levels and getting loot to progress to the next, biggest challenge. And maybe you don’t like it, and it’s fair to each their own, but why are you here ? Why play a plateformer if you don’t like to jump around ? Why play a shooter if you don’t like aiming and shooting ? And most of all why try and change a game into something else entirely just because you don’t like it, ruinning it for those who do like it in the process ? Why not just stop playing ?

“I don’t like aiming, so I am gonna go on the destiny forums and ask the dev to make it so I can get the best gear by playing football in the tower.” Go play fifa my dude.

Now you may reply that you would prefer different reward structures, something more akin to a single player game like skyrim for example. But that woul be forgetting a few things. For once, wow’s gameplay doesn’t really fit that type of game. It’s a tab targetting system, it has almost no mechanical skills involve, things like aiming for example. You click on the mob, you press a button and the mob goes dead. You want to parry in skyrim ? You have to press the parry button at the right time, you want to parry in wow ? Press a cooldown.

That’s not to say wow is easier than single player rpgs, more that their difficulties are different. WoW’s difficulty is mostly based on knowledge. Knowing your class, knowing the encounter and it’s mechanics. Even in pvp, which would be the closest thing to a more mechanical difficulty most of your skill depends on what you know. Knowing the ennemy’s class, it’s composition, what kind of set-ups they do and how to counter them, knowing how to best do your own set ups against them. To use my previous example, in skyrim the difficulty is in how to parry (doing it at the right frame), in WoW it is in deciding when to parry.

So where am I going with this ? WoW gameplay is at it’s worse, most boring when it requires no previous knowledge. You just walk to the mob, click it and press a button and it goes dead. Literally a point and click adventure, in fact you could argue point and clicks are harder than world content since you can actually loose in them. What makes an encounter interesting is the mechanics, learning them and executing them properly. You may not like that type of gameplay, and it’s fair, but putting them on the same level as killing boars in Elwynn is disingenuous and simply wrong. Dungeon and raid fights are games you can dislike, open world content is a non-game, it’s moving around on a map and doing a few clicks here and there like some idle mobile phone game.

So you can’t really make a reward structure like in a single player rpg, at least not in the current form of the open world. Because at this point you might aswell ask for mythic gear from mission tables (hello WOD), that’s pretty much the same thing in terms of challenge and difficulty. Fel with the current mission tables you could argue they are more difficult than world content because there is some degree of strategy to them.

So the open world would have to be changed, like by giving it soloable bosses but with actual mechanics. Like mini mage towers. But then we would be back to square one with people unable, or unwilling to do that content and complaining about it.

You will never get high end pvp or raiding gear by killing boar in Elwynn, no I don’t care how many emissaries you did it doesn’t mean you should get Sylvannas’ bow. Because doing so would go against everything that makes rpgs what they are, and why people enjoy them. I often read those people saying stuff like: “you only play for the rewards” and it’s partially true, doing harder content to get better rewards is one of the main reason I enjoy this game. And I am playing the right game for it, an rpg played with large groups of other people. You are asking for another game, and trying to ruin it for those who actually enjoy it. You are trying to take away the ball from the fifa soccer field because you don’t like running.

33 Likes

Reward system is a must and harder content should give better gear, but the gear gap is just way too big resulting in bonkers power creep between patches and especially in PvP where skill should weight more than gear.

But people who do not raid heroic should definitively not have gear with hc ilvl etc.

31 Likes

Is it though ? You can get to around 230 by only doing world content I believe.

2 Likes

Then rework how the open world works. Right now it’s incredibly shallow and unrewarding. WoW probably has the most unengaging and uninspired open world content of any MMO. This shouldn’t be the case.

14 Likes

Adressed that at the end of my post, they could but people would then complain that it’s too hard.

It’s just silly that each patch the ilvl is increased with 20-30 ilvl, this results in a stat squish every other expansion, like start of SL we had about between 20-30k hp, one big raid and we are already at 60-80k hp which is a 100% increase already, madness if you ask me.

2 raids actually.

One big after release as Nathria was with release.
One way to give proper loot from hard single player content would be something like Brawlers guild but it would be incredibly hard to balance.

Another way would be to create a solo challening path system where each challenge would reward some form of currency to buy good gear with, and the challenges could vary between healer, tank or dps challenges.

But then they would complain that they can’t do that either, the problem isn’t that no challenge is possible, it’s that they don’t want any challenge.

People will always complain, I’m not sure if you are trying to find a fix for the impossible? Not all critique and QQ from players should be taken and expanded upon.

1 Like

I have just seen a lot of people with the position of that they should be able to get high level gear from doing WQ or whatever in the wake of the boosting community ban, there is a huge thread going on in GD on this very subject atm. I was going to reply there but my rant became super long so I decided to make it’s own thread to explain the flaws in their logic basically.

1 Like

Soloable boss challenges would be a good addition, but that’s not a long-term progression that’d keep people invested for half a year. Open world needs a lot of work in terms of endgame and reward structure.

I have Sylvanus staff and six other pieces of gear from the heroic raid that only cost me €40 worth of in game gold. Does that damage your epeen?

It´s not the power players want. It´s the power progression. A casual would not quit the game because they can not get mythic raid gear with sockets and leech. A causal quits, because they quickly reach a point where they can´t really progress their character.

Back in Legion a casual could do

WQs / emissaries for

-Legendaries
-AP
-Gear drops (with TF potential, socket potential, leech potential).
-Trinkets like arcanocrystal

If we ignore the atrocious and boring Korthia time-gated system of 230 ilvl gear, then most casuals just almost immediately hit a wall in Shadowlands. Where they can´t progress their character.

Again, the problem isn´t that they can´t get mythic raiding gear, it´s that the current gear progression system for casuals just sucks.

Heroic raiders are in the same boat. Your progress is basically just the dumb weekly +15 chest.

Back in Legion heroic raiders could progress through

-WF / TF in heroic raids (sockets / tert stats). Tert stats were awesome in Legion, but sadly nerfed massively post legion.
-Spamming casual +15 m+ and hoping for TF drops / tert stats / sockets, could push higher with good gear easily, increasing chance of drops and thus chance of TF / socket / tert drops.
-Massive TF in the weekly chest, now, comparatively the chest gives very little progression.
-Powerful trinket like arcano crystal / stat trinkets in argus
-Helping more casual guild mates in normal raid still gave chance of massive TF for tier drops and trinkets.

The issue again, is not that you won´t have the same gear as Limit raiders. It´s that because all these elite raiders kept crying because of their jealousy issues, the game has ruined what was really good power progression back in Legion. The result is the most unpopular expansion of all time, with one of the worst power / gear progression systems in WoW´s recent history.

20 Likes

Bruh, what.

In vanilla you either raided, pvped hardcore or you were stuck with blue dungeon gear as the best you could obtain.

You could literally get epic items by standing afk in AV / AB.

Wrong.

You’d literally be kicked out of the group if you tried AFKing.

Kicked out of what groups?

There were no enforced groups for the majority of vanilla. You literally could not be kicked.

Wrong again.

1 Like

If you’re AFK and you got invited to a group for the BG, you’re not going to gain anything if they kick you out for being AFK, so lol.

The game was new and fresh in vanilla, and for most back then WOW was often the first huge open world game they had ever seen and they were happy just exploring it and levelling along.

Raiding wasn’t the be all and end all of everything back then, far from it.

Things move on and people paying real money are no longer happy to subsidise gear progression for a tiny percentage of the player base while getting nothing themselves.

I think you fail to realise that if every mythic raider unsubbed in the morning it wouldn’t dent the finances, the millions of casual subs they are bleeding will though.