Dont spend money on retail wow and wait for classic . Maybe the hopefully very popular classic will open up their eyes
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What is wrong you with?
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World of Warcraft turned pay 2 win and got away with it
Lol.
TL:DR for the OP: âCasuals bad, casuals ruined game, boo death to LFRâ
This game would truly be dead without casual content.
Character boosting is incredibly expensive. Making veteran players such as myself feel bad for getting tired of 15 year old content is pathetic.
The game is more complex than it ever has been. Any claim that classes were more complex in Vanilla is just laughable - the classes werenât hard, they were just poorly designed or even unfinished (moonkins/Spriests). Complexity is still to be had in this game at every level, itâs just that the content is more accessible these days. Nothing wrong with that. The fact this game still has around 3-5M subs (depending on who you listen to) after fifteen years is amazing.
Just because you donât like the damn game doesnât mean we should all feel guilty about enjoying it ourselves.
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Can anyone translate this to English?
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He didnât like how you represented your opinion so he donât agree with you in his own way.
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I stopped reading once I saw « Wow became p2w »
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WoW is P2W? Ok⊠So you know i havenât bought any gold or even gear from AH. I have actually more gold now than at the beginning of the expansion. And what is âwinningâ? Beaten raids in normal and heroic - done. Clearing M+10 every week - done. Mythic raiding is sort of niche for selected few 0.1% of the players.
I never relied on reallife friends even during vanilla. It was always mostly about guild. I went through an expansion or 2 without a good social raiding guild and thatâs propably time when i was unsubbed the most. Game only goes so far when you just motivate yourself. What do you expect for grouping with random people to dungeons and raids? Itâs not going to end well. No the fun begins when you get to know other people and organize events. So start by looking for a guild, and it can take a bit until one feels like home.
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Players have been quitting the game since vanilla. Itâs common sense that if you donât bring new players to the game it will die. They could have done it better, but the reality is that you always need to draw in new players and that means changes to the game. Do I agree with the direction the game is going? Thatâs a different story. Am I willing to accept a âdecent at bestâ WoW? Thatâs a different story. The quote below illustrates my point :
WoW today is meant for people that will find a 7/10 solid and hope it will get better (even though evidence from previous expansions suggest that the game peaked towards the start of the expansion). The target audience is the people happy with a mediocre-decent game at its best.
Nothing wrong with the game OP, just accept that weâre not the target audience 
To me cata was a 8/10 at the start and my thinking was ânot good enough, you can do betterâ. When cata ended my thinking was âreally, you just went back to the mediocre levels or wrath?â - I give it a generous 6/10 but thatâs unacceptable to me.
Iâm unwilling to spend time in a game that I donât rate as 9/10 any more - thatâs my good enough bar, Iâm a busy middle-aged guy who has limited time for gaming. Thatâs not a flaw of Bfa, it simply means itâs not made for me (or probably for the people that left it).
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Continuing the discussion from I feel ashamed if I log in:
Well, I feel it too tbh. With all companies that treat their employees like that. Didnât by RDR2 because their slogan to sell the game was âour employees made 100h work weeksâ. People are going to die over something like games, if not from exhaustion then from depression. Itâs insane that corporations get away with it because people (especially in america) have been taught by those same corporations that unions are the bane of all evil.
I donât want to play a game that people have had to give up their lives for to make, unless itâs their own game - their magnum opus - that they willingly wanted to give everything up for, by their own choice.
When a game is paid for in blood, yes, then it makes me feel ashamed that I can sit here and have a simple bit of fun that I could get in so many other ways as well over something that people have been hurt for. Legit hurt.
I know this even counts for the pants Iâm wearing, though Iâm trying to buy proper stuff. Itâs kind of tough these days to buy anything that people havenât been extorted for, and thatâs a sad given. Now even games make people bleed irl. (Or at least the scope of it has reached my ears now).
TL;DR Itâs tough to enjoy anything that hurt others so badly.
Lindsey Ellis has (quite a long) bit about it, she does a much better job explaining this.
Especially the third one, but the other two videos work up to it.
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Interesting word to use.
Ashamed, as in enjoying something others frown upon.
Yeah, sheâs running game on you, next thing you know, youâre going to be feeling ashamed watching the football game.
Those âdisappointingâ looks got you thinking itâs your idea, lol.
Yeah, you need to put your foot down bruh, youâre making us look bad.
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Agree with the OP. Iâd given up raiding and expected to raise a few alts for fun and storylines but⊠I know theyâre going to get to 120 and enter an abusive relationship.
Would rather they stay young and innocent in their Cataclysm-MoP gear.
Tempt me back, Blizzard. Itâs on you to offer me an experience that doesnât feel like a waste of time.
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Wow is not pay to win.
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Yeah it is. If you can by IRL currency pay to get a advantage over other players, thatâs pay to win.
A regular player, will have to spend at least 2+ weeks to level a toon to max level and several more days/weeks to gear that toon up.
Where as you can just skip the entire process, buy/sell WoW tokens for very decent BoE gear, stack up on any profession materials, if you are willing to whip out your wallet.
Heck, letâs say the rich player and the regular player frequently bump into each other in the world and eventually at max level in Battlegrounds. Whoâs gonna get their butt wooped? Who got to max level first, who has had more time and experience with the endgame meta and the gear to support it?
You can call it whatever you want âPay for convenience, pay for advantage, pay for premium experienceâ⊠honestly, whatever. Any reasonably and rational person knows that it all translate into âpay 2 winâ.
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When the blizzard shop sells you titanforged best gear then Iâll agree itâs pay to win.
People have been buying in game boosts for gold since forever. That is not pay to win.
Nor is buying a token pay to win, itâs a metric they added so people could farm gold in game and pay for their subscription, basically passes the sub cost on to someone else. It also eradicated a lot of account fraud because people no longer have to go to dodgy third party sites to buy gold from gold sellers. These goldsellers would often later steal the accounts of the people they had sold to.
I love this ridiculous notion that someone would spend the amount of money on tokens that would be required to buy CE etc. The people who make gold in this game donât do it by buying tokens. Iâm sure there is the odd exception but lets look at this realistically.
A 7/8 Mythic run costs around 6m. The current token price is 180k gold. That means it would cost you around 34 tokens if we round up. That works out at a whopping ÂŁ578.
8/8M run costs around 9m. Working with the token price above that means it would cost you 50 tokens. That works out at ÂŁ850.
Those costs were based on my reamâs top guild. If you go with a group like âThe Gallywix Communityâ then itâs even more expensive. They charge 6-10m for 7/8 and 10-15m for CE.
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Are you poor or something? For a full endgame geared toon, thatâs a decent investment, you are basically set for the entire expansion.
Do you not constantly see those âselling boostsâ in group finder? They are there because a lot of people use those services and because they are affordable.
The monthly income after taxes in my country on average is ÂŁ2000, so even for a average person that ainât a problem at all. You skip all the dull chores and rock your way through the expansion and Activision Blizzard makes it possible.
The argument that âOh, no one would spend that kind of money on a gameâ fall very short very fast. The gaming industry has noticed that people can and are whilling to pay large amounts of money to skip content and get ahead in games, in addition there are monetization schemes and addictive gambling mechanics, why do you think that lootboxes and microtransaction are a thing in every game now? Hell, if you want to go to the extreme, look at Star Citizen and the amounts of cash thrown that way.
It may seem unrealistic to you, due to your financial state, but it ainât to others.
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I love how your whole reply is just a snarky comments about what you presume to know about a complete strangers finances.
Ignoring your nasty attitudeâŠ
A clear of the first raid (one run through) will not set you up for the rest of the expansion even if you managed to get an item from every single boss. Every new tier, new gear at a higher ilvl comes out. Do you really think a clear of EN in Legion would set you up throughout the expansion?
Those who buy runs for M plus are usually freshly dinged chars who want a gear boost, sometimes for the achievement. People do not buy them every week on one character.
The average person will not sacrifice half their income on a boost in a game on pixels.
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Nasty attitude means giving a creditable argument?
The debate between the two of us is if wow is pay 2 win. Your argument is that the although the option to pay for boosts is there, itâs not pay 2 win, because you personally either cannot afford it or refuse to believe that others can.
My counter argument is that these services DO exist, you even acknowledge their existence yourself, so if you are not willing to call them pay 2 win, then how would you describe services which give unfair advantages to those willing to cash out?
^ Statements like that are exactly the reason why I make assumptions. ÂŁ1000 is not a lot of money, typically there are two persons in a household, with another side investment additionally generating income and 10 to 20 times (if not more) stashed in a savings account for young adults.
It is very usual that adults, who have a hobby (be that a social, creative or a sports activity) put ÂŁ1000 or more into that over the course of a few months. Membership, equipment and so onâŠ
So if World of Warcraft is the favorite hobby for a person, why is it so hard to believe that they would spent a lot of cash to either stay on par with friends, get into raiding or woop butt in PvP? Or all of it?
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Itâs not pay to win, but the writing is atrocious these days, often taking a colossal dump on established continuity or coming up with ridiculous plot lines. Gameplay-wise, itâs boring, uninspired, repetitive and frankly boring.
Legion was a high point after so much underwhelming crap, but BFA shows a complete lack of imagination and interest in improving. Letâs face it, Blizzard donât care what you, me or anyone but the shareholders think. Itâs all about repetitive expansion releases every 1-2 years, profit margins, cash shop shenanigans, loot boxes and now mobile crap.
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You have no idea of how things work in WoW, do you? WoW isnât P2W, boosts are as old as the game itself. You donât âwinâ the game by buying a boost.
If someone has bought a CE that doesnât mean anything more than a shiny FoS on their armory (and any bonus like mounts or titles it brings). They arenât âset for the entire expansionâ as youâve so delusionally put it. At best, theyâll link their CE achievement to get into a mythic pug, fail at mechanics a couple times, get kicked out of the group. Depending on the group they joined, theyâll either try for the same with another group (and fail again) if they get kicked before killing any bosses, or realistically, theyâll be locked out of mythic for the rest of the week because first boss of mythic usually doesnât pose that much of a difficulty and most pugs are able to kill it without any problem.
M+? Buying M+ boosts will only earn you gear and gear alone will hardly get you into any M+ group.
PvP? While Iâm no expert on rated PvP, as far as I know there are websites which assess performance of players in rated arenas and BGs. Other players can look up the name of the player who applies to their group, so again, buying your way to higher ranks wonât allow you to be accepted to any PvP group you apply to. Not that itâll magically make you kick asses and take names in any PvP environment either.
Besides, youâve also mentioned staying on par with friends, which makes no sense at all. Friends wouldnât mind if you are undergeared, if anything, they help their friend to gear up by doing M+ with him, or help him practice for arenas and BGs. If your âfriendsâ are demanding you to stay on par with them but not doing anything to help and leaving you out, youâre better off reconsidering your friendship choices before worrying about people buying boosts.
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Buying Tokens to sell for Gold is the definition of Pay 2 Win.
How you earn gold matters to the integrity of the game.
The boost is the win, how you paid for it determines if itâs Pay 2 Win.
Make sense?
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