I just learned why DK is in the gutter

Classes Death Knight
1

Yo,

I joined the DK discord community Acherus, and OMG the people in there will settle with anything they are actualy happy how Frost DK plays in pvp, being the degen memestreak and stun bot class, they get highly offended if u say BOS is a bad game design or anything currently related to the current state of DK.
No wonder we get no decent changes since the community ( and thats a large one) is so braindead, i kept browsing the NA and EU DK section for months and i couldnt understand why we have such few fedback compared to basicaly any other class out there, even in wowhead class changes comments no1 talks about DK.
How can people be ok with the current state of Death Knight, am i not taking the right crack?
Hook me up then fam.

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I can only speak for me, but after months of giving feedback that DK is bad I am tired of writing the same stuff over and over again just for it to be ignored by blizzard.

I honestly don’t know why people in the Discord are happy with how DK is. We have a few somewhat prominent DK players in the Discord that think DK is in a good state and I don’t know why

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I can’t speak for PvP but I’m honestly quite happy with current PvE state. There are two competitive main builds (obliteration and BoS) for raid and a large amount of the talents see some play. Sure, it’d be nice to see gathering storm gaining some competition from other choices on the row, like adding chill streak instead of hypo presence and making glacial advance more competitive in single target.

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I am sure, that many Frost PvP players are satisfied, because it is maybe the first time Frost is actually good in PvP. But I think that it should be quite obvious, that UH is really undertuned regarding numbers in PvP and Blood is maybe in the worst state in PvP as far as I remember

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First time Frost DK is good in PvP? Are you even playing the game? Have you ever played the game? Speechless.

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Or maybe I meant that it’s the first time that UH is this inferior compared to Frost in PvP. But I skipped PvP in BFA so I may be wrong.

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Being inferior or superior to a different spec of the same class wouldn’t matter less when you’re literally the class with the worst, or one of the worst bursting capabilities right now.
Couldn’t tell you how UH is doing right now, but right now I see Frost as an utility character, you basically pull people towards you with your Covenant’s skill, root them, and let someone that actually can burst do the killing.
Yeah, you can crit for SOME damage, but again, not anywhere near any other class.

Asides from that, if I had mobility or tankyness, I wouldn’t mind not critting for +20k like others do, but mobility is almost unexistant and tankyness means nothing when you get bursted down by literally anyone (but other DKs) in under 2sec.

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overall what really makes frost death knight bad is the lack of interacting design from the talent tree again passive damage syndrom to little support for 2 handed frost build that should always be ahead on single target as it got 1 build pvp talent like chill streak should be in the pve tree and the lack of sustain in pvp making us glass but no cannon sins were balanced around chill streak

being purely dps and being forced to act like a support class will never be a good design when were balanced around 1 pvp talent and other classes doing things for us

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While i was leveling with wm on and after i got 60, chill streak is quite decent in pve, not a huge thing but id be great if we had it baseline for frost since its very situational anyway.
And who the hell enjoys that sweet Obliterate animtion hitting for 4k crit without pillar?
We need some new talents, or atleast new pvp talents, i want horn of winter with stats as party buff also etc etc etc.
No way in hell is Frost dk fun to play now, mabe if u get a hard on watching parses and you couldnt care less if u had to only use 1 button,

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I wish it was 4k T_T

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Its so bad, i keep forgeting how much it is LOL

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I am also in the Acherus Discord and those who are happy with Frost DK have their own teams for 3s and they have been playing together for years so they do not struggle as much as someone who would find random partners and queue for arenas to push rating. As of now, DK is the worst class possible for PvP, I only ever enjoy playing frost in rbgs because of the Frostwrymm Legendary.

The Death Knight class lacks good consistent damage, physical defense and self heals. Imagine having zero physical defense and relying on self heals when you can heal yourself for 2k at its best by spending half of your runic bar with death strike. I am sorry to see DK in this state since it’s been my main since WotLK but this is the truth… DK is awful PvP wise.

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this is a very good point, i have spoken before of my thought with how elitist it may seem, sure, not every single Dk that is good has such crutches and long teams to rely on but the majority have, they get in a way a version of the game that is completely different from the regular joe, that’s nto their fault in essence but it allwos them to get a tilted view of the reality of the majority (an eerie comparion to real life now but i wont speak further), and on another note, even flarkness when Frost dk was at its most useless state in SL streaight up said that it was not fun at all, and that he had to work 4 times as hard even with his team to climb,…but apparently he could climb in the end, with perfect talents and setups and friends, and that makes the class fine for the ones having to deal with the soloqueue and other things.

i know some of you discord people might read this thread, including you biceps, i have nothing but respect for you biceps but you have to realize how much that has been stripped,changed, half assed and removed to us over the years, even the whole utter crime of forcing BoS on us, i will never stop trying to explain how it dont belong on our class, some critical points about it is:

1: take a gander at all the classes, then compare their final talents to Frost DK, all the way since legion, and measure how many was unironically designed around a talent, each and every talent before it nearly was designed for this single button.

2: The entire spell is not even fitting to be on Frost Dk, the idea is kinda ok, a continius RP drain with damage, sure, but the entire idea of just blowing cold air is not even fitting for a frost mage, think about it, really think about it, a specialization that has been about swift, decisive weapon strikes since its very inception, dual wield and 2 handed, what has been the best final talent now for about 80% of the rework since legion? is it a 5 strike combo of strikes that drains your RP? no…is it a draining rp ability when you meticolously strike and slice your opponent with deadly remorslesless precicion overtime? no… is it a greater obliterate or greater froststrike using all our RP to chunk people? NO. It’s a breath of cozy snow, that you spew out as you flail around like a clown.

3: The design about it is very annoying to balance…(but only for DK,s other classes have similar skills with no pvp reducton or failure condition in pvp, and they even do more damage than us), because in theory it can go for a very long time, and thus the rest of our kit has to be slashed… but it is useless in PvP, so the same problems i kinda show here applies to chill streak aswell, shoehorned spell. you HAVE to have it to PVP full stop,tell me another class or spec that absolutely need that talent (and a few others, full stop)

IM gonna end this here because i feel i have written my points across other posts well and clear, peace.

Edit, my man Chillpills lays out some thoughts on the whole BoS situation in this thread

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Absolutely agree whit you on all points you make and shout out to other skilled dk’s that also agrees our class is flawed it’s just so damn unfortunate blizzard wont se posters like you or {MVP Chillpills} big fan of hem

but we will just have to se what happens for 9.1 but i highly recommend to all do not subscribe to blizzard unless they are willing to confront the playerbase and solve this issue

we should honestly not accept this bad design they have put frost death knight in especially whit the void fo… uh Breath of sindragosa lets be real they are the same

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If frost is good then i would love to know what you consider ret, arms and sub to be.

Frost feels on the same level as survival and mm etc. It’s viable but i wouldn’t call it good. Unholy is beyond garbage to the point of being unplayable.

The biggest problem with frost is how it’s played. It’s a support dps, alone it doesn’t do near anything except slow fights down and as such why it ultimately fails outside of 3s. You are more or less completely banking on 1 of 2 things, chillstreak or uptime for a class that can actually kill things.

Unholy needs to be massively buffed. I don’t care though because if nothing changes for dk and i expect nothing will i just won’t play and will instead spend my time on bc.

Garbagelands is already over for me

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Influencers are quite happy too but its because the class has been in the dumpster for so long that any sane person has given up on the class 3 - 4 expansions ago.

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People are actualy trash talking and leaving my keys now because im a 2-handed frost dk, i went into m+ since pvp is a toxic cesspool of boosters and meta slaves, to find that m+ is the same, wow community is prolly the worst in the gaming market atm for some1 who comes in new or plays a class like FDK.
If my class was fun to play i would just brush that off and wouldnt care a bit, id be happy to just play my class.

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That’s usually because people who say BOS is bad don’t have any constructive input on how to make it better. And they just want Frost to be a braindead spam of Obliterate, Frost Strike and Howling Blast all day.

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I do feel like having Breath being the only viable pick in the final tier upsets a lot of people. A lot of people dislike it and whenever it becomes obstructively strong, it feels bad picking anything else and gimping yourself. I’m firmly in the camp of playing what you enjoy so fully understand the frustration. I personally like the min-max playstyle of breath. Playing around the encounter timers, thinking about ways to soak up magic damage to leverage the RP gain etc.

Currently, Obliteration is a completely viable alternative in raid, but does lack the AoE throughput in mythic + to be truly competitive. This also hurts it somewhat in raid since you get less of that sweet pad dmg. 9.1 will most likely see Obliteration gain power over Breath, specifically because it synergises much better with our potency conduits. Picking up 3 potency conduits will be a lot better for Obliteration. It still lacks the AoE though, but I feel like that can be fine in some sence, making Obliteration the single target choice and breath the AoE choice. Would be nice if they could buff GA though, since it plays really well with Obliteration. Maybe make the damage sqrt-scaling and make it worthwhile to press on st?

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Dont even try it… BOS is as braindead or even more braindead, stop trolling.