I sorely miss Cataclysm-era gearing and itemization

I had to make this small-ish rant when I realized once more how backwards the game has become in certain areas and how great some systems were a whole decade ago. If that’s one thing that I’ve despised about the game since Legion that’s been gear and gearing in general. Could be that these issues started in WoD but I didn’t play it so I’ll reference Legion as the starting point.

Going back to the Wrath/Cataclysm and even MoP era, both the gearing process and the gear itself were the best we’ve ever had, and a masterpiece compared to the trash we’ve had for the last 4 years, and nothing has improved on that front in SL. Cataclysm (before LFR) perfected this process which was held together by Justice/Valor points until you hit HC raiding, and there was a clear line of progression after reaching cap.

You started doing normal dungeons, then heroics, constantly making certain progress towards guaranteed upgrades that were either HC dungeon or NM raid quality with JP/VP points respectively, and these items were upgraded each raid tier so that dungeons remained relevant.

There were also 5 dungeons added with major patches that served as catch-up, and raid bosses were also dropping VP so that you were always guaranteed some level of progress in whatever content you chose even with bad luck. Valor was capped to an easily obtainable limit to avoid spamming, and the difference between HC dungeons and the first tier of 10 men NM raiding was 5 ilvls total, unlike the 16 we have now between M0 and NM raiding.

The gear itself was also drastically better. Armor penetration in Wrath was a perfect example of a fun stat, bad with low gear, OP when you can get tons of it. It felt good stacking it once you hit ICC gear and watching your dps skyrocket. Even hit and expertise had value because it also felt good once you started hitting your breakpoints. It was both a dps increase and provided the feeling of being “done” with a stat, something that’s completely absent in modern Wow in general.

Almost all raid quality items had gem sockets and most slots had enchants for them, which kept professions relevant throughout the expansion on top of the crafted gear being slightly below HC dungeon level. The biggest loss from the idiotization of gear was probably Reforging, as it gave people agency along with gems and enchants. You could make a mediocre item into a solid one by changing its secondary stats and adding gems to hit your hit/haste breakpoints or just pump everything into your best stat. Even with an addon to automate the process, it was infinitely better than the Sim-city we have now, as once again, you could DO something about your gear.

They desperately wanted to streamline gearing to a point that you could equip an item the second you got the drop, and now we this entirely RNG gear with random gems, braindead stats like Versatility, and items that might as well be replaced with a + and - for every piece instead of having any stats.

I also feel the game had a much smoother transition between the types of content and difficulty. HC raiding as the higest difficulty was somewhere between the current HC and Mythic difficulty, but the segmentation we have now only serves to divide the player base into tiers which promotes gatekeeping and elitism. A heroic raid back then was a somewhat reachable goal for many people, and it had a 10-men variant for smaller guilds and groups.

Now, extremely high keys and mythic raiding are so insanely out of reach for 99% of the player base due to extreme difficulty and scheduling requirements that the community is far more divided and not incentivized to step out of their comfort zone. You have people who are content with only doing LFR without ever touching normal even though it’s barely any harder, and people who never touch anything below mythic, with an enormous divide between the two.

While now people have more options to play the content at the difficulty they prefer, I don’t see this segmentation as a good thing at all because it keeps the players in these little camps that always sh**t on each other and want drastically different things from the game.

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I don’t miss hit and expertise at all. Having to min-max those trash stats was annoying.

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Ye those two sucked. I dislike the concept of having a hard cap on some stat, meaning that any rating above the cap is completely useless.

Reforging was good though. If you simply axed those two stats it would be glorious. But they axed both the cancer stats (Which is good!) and reforging (which was a bad decision).

Without those two you wouldn’t need any addons to min max it.

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Those two were subjective and they did suck in Wrath, but in Cata/MoP it wasn’t a problem beause no stat was useless due to reforging. Below cap, you could socket and reforge hit to reach the breakpoints, and once you had them naturally from other gear you could funnel the stats back to your main ones.

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I’d also like to mention PvP gearing here. Other than having to rebuy the elite gear when you got to 2.2 (which was a bit stupid, even if the elite gear overall was a small upgrade to the normal set), it was one of the best systems we had for PvP progression. You could buy PvP specific enchants, you had the crafted PvP sets that made professions relevant, you had the honor set with their set + glove bonuses, you had resillience which only boosted your tankiness unlike versatility, and you had your conquest gear, and conquest scaled with current rating.

It was an amazing progression path and I really don’t understand why it’s gone.

Cata classic when? Or maybe just make expansions that live up to how amazing Cata’s systems were :sob:

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Saying a stat is “fun” is kinda pointless, it only shows you have no arguments. Now i already said in a different context how aiming to be “done” with gear is stupid however this thread takes the stupidity to the next level. EVEN IF being done with a stat would be a good idea, this still wouldn’t stop you from getting it. You maybe get a set item that has hit on it putting you over the cap, then you have to rethink your whole gear, probably change all your gems, reforge, etc it was a mess.

One thing to mention is that after bliz removed reforging, they had to flood dungeon loot tables with every combination of every item to fix the lack of stat combinations. Now not only do you have more bad items (By virtue of there being more items total) you also have no way to make those bad items any better.

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I surely don’t miss the absolute content drought of Cataclysm, on par with LK actually.

Also, farming dungeons ad nauseam to grind some random currency and buy gear wasn’t exactly the most exciting design. If we had that today, people would cry about Blizzard LiTeRaLly FoRcINg them to grind the same boring dungeons and how easy it is for the evil casuals to get gear.

I want to like the OP a hundred times.

Being able to calculate how many dungs you’d need to run to gear up, having gem slots etc. It was SO MUCH BETTER.

Any modern version would be like anima though. 10k tokens needed per item, each run drops ~3 tokens.

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I absolutely agree with most of what you said, but reforging was a bad idea imho. It homogenized all gear, wasn’t fun to manage, and made those special items that little less special. We also had Master loot back then, which allowed us to target good pieces of gear so reforging just wasn’t necessary.

Though now that loot is a lot less targetable and sockets/enchants are a thing of the past, I can see it being a decent fit in modern WoW, it has to be said.

But yeah, other than that, I couldn’t agree more. I miss hit, expertise, parry rating, sockets and enchants so much. Gear is so uninteresting, unrewarding and unfun these days it hurts.

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I whole heartedly agree with this post. The only reason I wouldn’t mind classic: cataclysm pre dragon soul.

The only parts I disagree with are reforging, because it takes ANY RNG out of gearing which is bad and also hit stat when reforging was in the game. I like hit in classic but not later.

Explaining fun is pointless as it is subjective, but I don’t think claiming that haste and crit are fun and versatility isn’t requires any arguments at all.

Hitting/casting faster and getting faster cooldowns is fun, hitting bigger numbers more often is fun, getting an imperceptible bonus to dmg and reduction to damage taken isn’t, as simple as that.

When something makes a noticeable impact on your character it feels good to have, stats that don’t are useless and shouldn’t be in the game other than to pad out the loot tables and be a compromise for PvP and resilience.

It may be stupid for you but it isn’t for anyone who doesn’t want to be on an endless hamster wheel of gearing for every character. It allows you to play alts and feel satisfied once you’ve reached your BiS gear. And before arguments like “every MMO is an endless hamster wheel” come up, no they aren’t.

This very game had a very clear endpoint in terms of gearing up until Legion, because there were fewer items, you had more agency in customizing them, and you could target specific ones.

You are on an endless hamster wheel and unless you just started playing in shadowlands you should have realized this by now. The fact that millions of players managed to convince themselves for years there’s an endpoint to the grind is perplexing to me.

No, it didn’t. It had a made-up and completely arbitrary point, regardless of how many “good” buzzwords you use to describe it. The whole concept of BiS made the game into an item hunt, basically diablo, where it doesn’t matter what you do in the game, it’s about what you have.

Either you are the one who hasn’t played the game prior to Legion or you’re arguing facts for the sake of argument. There is nothing made up about the Best in Slot items and it IS the ultimate endpoint of gearing, the point where you can’t replace any item in any slot.

For anyone who’s interested is gearing their character, that is the endgame, if you don’t care about gear and are just putting on whatever that’s your deal, but arguing that it doesn’t/didn’t exist is plain stupid and false.

In Legion and BFA they wanted the game to be an endless slot machine of Titanforging/Corruption/Gem slots that does ruin the entire concept, which is why I’m saying that the old system was infinitely better for players who care about gear.

Every single piece of gear you ever had has been replaced and every single piece of gear you have equipped right now will be replaced in a matter of weeks or few months.
How on earth can you be so blind?

Yeah this has been the case in vanilla because there was nothing else to do, we just treated gear like a trophy because it was the only way to show off, it appears some of you got stuck in that mindset.

edit: also titanforge (with socket and tertiary) and corruption made items much more interesting and added a lot of variety. The only reason you think that’s inferior is that it broke your idiotic and antiquated BiS concept.

I really love thisgearing process. Great for people with a job

I don’t get why people have the need to be so toxic and hostile towards other people on this forum. Even if you don’t agree with someone, there’s no reason to call him idiotic etc.

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You seem to be plain stupid so there’s no point discussing this with you.

Go look up any guide for any spec of any of the first 4 expansions and you’ll see a list of items you CANNOT replace because there is nothing to replace them with until the next major patch or an expansion. If that concept is inconceivable to you then there’s nothing more I can add.

One of those people. Don’t worry we’ll get a BFA Classic at some point so you can have your casino back and have 50% of your damage be done by a corruption effect.

The guy who can’t figure out he’s replacing gear is calling others stupid, that’s rich man. Do you still think you’re still wearing your cataclym gear or something?

This explains why you can’t use your brain, probably atrophied by now.

:sob::sob::sob: Rip Profesions

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