I suck at M+ 10 or higher, advice please

First things first, this is not a whine post. I don’t think Mythics are too difficult I simply believe I do not have the knowledge or skill to complete a +10 just yet.

So yeah, tried my first +10 TOS mythic this morning as previous keys were challenging but still do able and I failed miserably. It didn’t help that the group was a PUG but I genuinely wasn’t expecting that increase in difficulty but I guess I was wrong to assume. Props to you guys who go in and smash every week!

Obviously I want to “get gud” and improve as a player but there are so many dungeons I really don’t know where to start in terms of trying to better myself. Each boss has its own mechanics along with the trashmobs also having their own mechanics I don’t think watching countless youtube videos is going to help as I am a firm believer that you truly learn when you do something yourself. Can anyone offer me any pointers or suggestions as to what dungeon I should start with first?

In an ideal world it would be great to play with a group of people who have headset/discord who would be willing to show me the ropes but most people on Draenor want to do raids where as I am not really interested in raiding, I would rather do Mythics.

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You can look beyond your local community (your realm) and find people willing to do mythic+ elsewhere, on other realms. There are many mythic+ communities, you could try your luck in those. Another option is to make friends with good players with equal interests once you come upon them, this way you’ll have people you’ll play with on a consistent basis. Obviously, a guild would probably be the best option, but it could take a while to find one with enough interested people.

As to how you can be better, I suppose it comes down to practice. Are the mechanics the hard part, or do you wish to do more damage? If it’s both, well, for damage, you should first of all know your basic rotation. I am not aware of your current skill level, so I’m not going to assume much. But have a look on resources such as icy-veins.com. They provide spec guides and cover the basics very efficiently. Have a careful read through whatever spec you’re playing, and if there’s something new that you learned, go try it out on a dummy. Whenever I learn a new spec, I spend about 20-30 minutes hitting the dummy until I have the necessary muscle memory to perform that rotation without having to think about it.

Obviously there’s more to it than that. Icy veins will teach you the very basics, true, and knowing those will place you above most players. However, they usually also don’t cover the most advanced things that come with your class. I would highly suggest that you join the paladin discord, link is here: https://discordapp.com/invite/hammerofwrath. Look through their text channel and ask for advice. The class discords are the best place to go to whenever you wish to get really in-depth about your class, since the best players in the world are in them, and they often make guides/new builds.

Once you understand your rotation, have practiced, and know what you need to do, the rest comes down to execution and mechanics. Now, I would say I usually run a dungeon 2-3 times before I know all the important bits from memory. You should know what every boss is, and what they do. Those are most important. Trash mechanics you should also pay attention to, but at +10 they’re less significant, and you only need to know the major ones. If you die to a trash pack, it would be good to revise why that happened. What abilities killed you, and could you have avoided it? I’ll also give you a bit of a tip: use your cooldowns whenever they come up. Many people save their cd’s for bosses and bosses only, however, trash is as important as the bosses. Once you’ve played around with your cooldowns a little bit, you’ll start to recognize good pulls to use them on, and to maximize their potential.

On top of that, I’d recommend finding streamers who do a lot of mythic+ and play the spec you’re interested in. See how they play. Ask questions in chat. Compare their performance against yours. The best way to get better at anything is simply to copy what the best players do. Once you’re at their level, you can start thinking what you could do better. I often find minor details about my spec that once understood correctly can lead to better performance. Always question what you are doing, experiment things. I’ll leave you with a few resources I managed to find:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcG2Xnv9Bo5pVIK5vXYWfZA/featured Seems like a decent paladin that features mythic+ on his channel, no commentary however. Could be worth checking out.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/retribution-paladin-basic-mythic-plus-keystone-dungeons Wowhead’s mythic+ guide for ret paladins. Can’t vouch for how good it is, but wowhead guides from my experience are usually written by good players who know what they’re talking about.

I couldn’t find any streamers from my google searches, but I know a youtuber/streamer by the name of quin69 who plays ret paladin. The only problem with him is that he also plays other games, namely PoE and diablo 3, but whenever he’s back into WoW, he is one of the best rets out there. I’d very much recommend you to take your time with the paladin discord, as I believe it is one of the best places you’ll find information from. Sadly, due to my limited experience with paladins, I cannot help you more than that. However, I hope that you’re able to make well with the resources that I gave you.

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I had healed some 10+'s in this new patch (on my healer alt), but yesterday I did my first 10 on this one. I had of course seen what you need to do, and read about it, but then in practise, I was fairly nervous.

Thank God it was a nice group, no toxic players or anything. I would advise just to keep practising it, and not go do much higher keys until you feel comfortable.

When I started BFA, I literally did start (as I always do when I ding max level), start doing all M0’s, for 2 weeks, and start doing M+2/3’s, then move my way up.

In this patch though, I notice that I feel M+9’s I already feel comfortable with, and I do get invited easily on my 2 characters.

I was surprised when they invited me to SoB+10, also not the easiest Tyrannical dungeon. I was fairly nervous, made a few mistakes because of that, but in the end, did manage to have a good first experience.

It’s good to know that the shadow emmisary’s damage can be LoS’d. I also felt I was good enough for doing M+10.

Why don’t you try doing all the dungeons at +9, also good for your score, that’s my task for the coming weeks on 2 characters.

Check this vid from Hazel on youtube as well, where she explains the 3 emmisaries, in the end it’s fairly easy, just as long as you’re in a group that thins the same. Just practise, and you’ll be fine, I do the same.

You’ve hardly done any lower level dungeons? Why not learn the ropes in a lower level key?

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Yeah, just start with lower keys, maybe 5s til you’ve done them all, then 7s, then 9s and once you’ve done everything at a 9 you should be able to start 10s. Just look for groups that aren’t planning on pushing keys and learn 10s there.

Well, where do you struggle?

Go and do +5 dungeons till you’re confident with everything.

There is no actual difference between +5 and +10 in terms of boss and trash abilities.
The same abilities but just hit harder.

Watching pov of your class and spec can also help. Checking when high rio player uses burst, what talents and abilities he uses. Its always good and useful

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Thanks for your in-depth and detailed response. it is honestly appreciated and I am grateful for the amount of effort you put into this post.

you didn’t really say what the problem was…

PUGs are hit and miss. Often a +2 is harder than a +10 because people are just terrible.
While this time the +10 might just be a bad group, the next +10 might just rush through.
Some dmg is not healable and requires the group not to be bad and also having high dps helps.
Void emissary, you can take 2 stacks before being one shot but you need dps that kill her before the third cast (normally pretty easy). If your group cannot meet that dps check your pug life will be alot harder already

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What role were you playing / want to play?

If you want more precise and directed help you should at least share what exactly did you “fail miserably” at.

Otherwise in general wowhead is a great start. Lots of great info for both the dungeons and your class. And Papudeath gave you great advice as well. Other than that, just get in there build up the experience first hand, best way to learn. But start with lower keys, like do all the dungeons a few times on +5/+7. Don’t start by throwing yourself in the deep before you even learned how to swim :slight_smile:

Apologies guys, after reviewing my post I did not make it clear. So my issue is understanding the tactics/mechanics of some of the trash. It was my first time doing a +10 with the affix “Beguling” and I died almost instantly because I did not know the mechanics. I hold my hands up to this one and will treat it as a learning curve.

well then Wowhead and start spamming them +5 - +7 for at least a few times for each dungeon to get the hang of them.

Try this Beguiling shoft video guide:

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there is not much to know about beguiling as in 99% of the cases you will just ignore the affix in +10s
Void will be nuked down before 3rd cast so no one even los anymore
cc one will be killed quickly and there is only 1 retarded mob pack in underrot which i encountered that make this one actually a problem… TD may have another one with the caster pack

so i don’t know if you get “oneshotted” by the affix beguiling or just fail at boss mechanics.
if it is the second, well you can learn to improve by even running heroic dungeons and get good at dodging all mechanics

Practice, practice, practice. Every key level you can get into just run the dungeons, learn the trash, the mechanics, the boss fights, the routes. Reading guides as such can help to an extent but is nothing compared to getting stuck in and running the keys.

Start lower and build upto higher key. Join guild or a community to make getting a team easier.

Overwhelmed with all the positive comments and support from you guys. Thanks for being decent and not trolling.

Maybe also check out the Fail Train discord community - it’s a pretty active community for playing raids and dungeons together in a chill and learner-friendly environment.

https://discordapp.com/invite/VsEFRHh

I don’t usually do that much M+, but when I do it always nice to be on voice with my guild so they can guide me through the best routes and share their experiences with how to deal with something.

Crappy pack vary a lot between weeks.
This week Atal has a very crappy pack before last boss, it’s either deathrun or shroud/inv potion.