I think a lot of us are/might be frustrated due to having a hard time finding groups. Our lack of utility may be a very big contributing factor. That’s why I wanna present a few ideas on how to make us more valuable. Each of them should be viewed as separate entities/ideas (not combined).
Assert dominance: The warrior asserts his dominance by letting out a fierce battle cry causing surrounding enemies to lose any enrage effects. (I like this idea, because some mobs enrage without the affix, and it has very low impact overall)
Berserker’s command: Bloodlust (boring idea imo)
Living forge (active): The blood of the warrior starts to boil, and is causing him to heat up until he gets tired and loses 5% haste for 3 seconds. This heating process causes the entire group to receive a dot that does increasing damage up to 20% of their hp over time, but they get an increasing primary stat increase from 0 to 10% over time and 0 to 10% haste increase. This is supposed to reference Kaioken from DBZ visually at least
Die for valor: The warrior charges at the enemy to perform a reckless attack hitting the target for a really high amount of damage, but the warrior dies in the process. As he dies, the morale of the group increases and they receive a 20% primary or haste stat buff for 5 (or whatever numbers) seconds.
Mass Disarm
Group-wide Spell Reflect (for elaboration see discussion below)
Baseline Demoralizing Shout.
Group-wide damage reduction for prot warriors.
Change intervene to work on spells, so we can intervene + spell reflect.
AOE physical damage reduction like anti magic zone but physical
Btw, I’ve put literally zero thought into the numbers, so just think of it conceptually.
Those are just separate/discrete ideas. I’d like you to also post fun ideas on how to improve warrior utility as well, or say why you think they are fine as they are. (I also believe warriors are very strong, but people don’t seem to like playing with us regardless of our dps/tankiness)
Hello there, I am sorry to hear many feel frustrated and are having a hard time finding a spot in groups. Sadly, it is a mistake to believe the lack of utility is the core issue. Warrior got plenty, from AoE and ST stuns, AoE fear, spell reflect, rallying cry and so on, and on.
The problem is a mix of three things more than anything.
Firstly; you are probably not filling the minimum requirements for the group you are trying to get into. Currently, from the +11 key level, people want and expect you to be at least 430 ilvl and at least 2.5k rio on your main character to get a spot.
Second; you are most likely not the best option of the twenty to hundred to pick from. You might be 435 ilvl and 2.5k rio, yet another signs up with 440 ilvl and 2.9k rio.
Third; class perception and PuGs general lack of knowledge on how keys are done. Many do believe you need to bring an aditional poision dispell for the worm boss in NL, yet you can bring a warrior and it will get spell reflected for even greater effect. Many do believe warrior can not bring AoE stuns, in comparisment to a DH or Monk, again a falsity - yet low skill warriors will state that “warrior can not bring the AoE stun, it will cost too much DPS.” (hogwash). Then you got that people don’t understand why meta group-builds bring certain classes, especially for funnel DPS pulls (something you do not do in pugs), so a Fury Warrior for your gameplan would excell and outperform its competition in the actual played format (you pull kill, pull kill).
Now, if I were to humor the idea that warrior should receive even more utility - we would have to accept a DPS performance nerf or a heavy hit to our survivalbility.
Feel free to come with more ideas and play with the idea. But keep in mind that more utility is not required, not the problem and would unbalance warrior as a class. Indeed, if this idea should go through and come to pass - warrior would suffer and be in a much worse place balance wise.
As the discussion is always repeated, I will just end this with this - If you truly want warrior to not be perceived as a worse option, you must stop preaching the word that warrior is the worst option. Prove warriors worth in keys by your great gameplay and actually use your toolkit. Community perception is fickle - they usually go by word of mouth, ignoring factual data. So you can only defeat a bad perception with laying the groundwork to turn it into a good one. Turn the conversation into what warrior excels at, not what it can not do.
Funkukittié still not understanding that listing all potential utility does not mean we have this utility in practice. Out of the current most popular build in m+ from subcreation, about half of them only have stormbolt, the other half have stormbolt and fear, and a very low subset of the first have aoe stun.
So the community will see when they play with the rdm warrior, either a 1 stun class or a 1 stun + 1cc class. Never both at the same time. And even then, this is still worse than all the other classes.
Telling people to change community perception by themselves is just dumb take anyway. And You say that community ignore factual data, yet it’s factual that when you tally warrior dps utility against other dps utility you get less bang for you bucks.
And as far as adding utility unbalancing warriors, I still don’t understand the point when we are right now not near top dmg anyway. Adding BL would change absolutely nothing but make us an answer to group looking for BL…
Warrior has no utility.
LMAO.
1 mass stun, 1 ranged stun, undispellable MASS fear, 2 charges + leap, INTERVENE, Reflect, UNDISPELLABLE healing reduction, SPEAR OF BASTION ?
and im pretty sure you can utilize one of the greatest dps in the bracket for a few expansions too.
We cannot really spec into all of these, and I’m not sure how stuff like “healing reduction” matters in dungeons. If you are talking about PvP, I don’t do that content at all. (Editing the rest out, cuz it was indeed unnecessary)
Even with the supposed best Shockwave talent build it sims a 12k dps loss in M+ for me, but sure it helps with CC, and sure I do tend to top overall meters in my keys, but it seldom is 10-15k dps difference. The point there has never been to say that sacrificing damage for utility shouldn’t be a thing, the point I and others are trying to make is that it is a bit much of a DPS sink considering other classes don’t have to sacrifice as much or anything at all but are still able to bring a lot of strong AoE hard CC.
The “undispellable” mass fear gets removed in less than a second cause it breaks from damage, it’s a great spell, but it functions more like a mass interrupt than anything else.
Charges and leap are nice, the impact of them on a group experience is very miniscule however. Intervene can also be nice as with all things, it’s a kind of small and not particularly impactful in the grand scheme of things save for a couple of niche windows where it might save someone, but it’s great that it negates damage rather than transfer it these days.
The healing reduction is only for Arms.
Spear of Bastion is a major damage CD, to use it as utility in a pinch works for sure, but that will often put us as fury in a weird spot, our playstyle is basically burst and burst some more, when we don’t have cooldowns ready we don’t do a lot in terms of damage, so when our CDs are out of sync which this often leads to, it would make overall damage output suffer a lot, as with everything I understand it is another to play around if you do have to use it this way but just saying that it’s a bit awkward in terms of it’s utility.
sure BL is boring… but would fit
… also since Legion it would fit to have a Battlerezz due to Valkyrs … boring but utility…
something more advaced usefull would be aoe de-rage (maybe there is some fitting idea for it) or bleed dispell for partymembers (there plenty of fitting warrior, beserk, blood lore)
but since alpha DF my #1 feedback is to put shockwave as selection in the fear talent spot. stun and fear / interrupt are 2 differnt types of CC and you mostly want one… or for PVE mostly a stun… so the bottom right talent tree is free for some new utiliy
Warrior could use some form of Blood Lust since we are the only plate class that does not bring battle rezz. and blood lust would fit thematically better than battle rezz.
this week for example is extreme. we cant deal with afflicted affix, we dont bring battle rezz, we dont bring lust. so getting into a grp this week means that the grp needs to be extremely tailored to fit a warrior.
in comparison, a shaman enhancement, can deal with the affix alone and brings lust. why would you take a warrior over enhancement?
I would take a fury warrior simply because: They always do top tier DPS, no matter what the tank does, no matter the pull-size and no matter what happens.
You don’t plan around a Fury warrior. Fury warrior simply pumps. No CDs, no nothing. Just damage. Bad Fury warrior player, doesn’t matter - still great damage. Stands in fire? Doesn’t matter, still a Fury Warrior, ain’t gonna die and keeps doing damage.
Need a stop on the prio target? Fury warrior got you. Stun, stun or fear, pummel if it is doable. Mmm… litteral sexy that is. Also, damage keeps pumping on prio target and perfect cleave on all adds. Fury Warrior is great.
You want your 20 done easily even if the tank doesn’t know how to play around classes? Bring a Fury Warrior. Then bring a single class to handle the Affix, be it a hunter, warlock, or anything else. Warrior will make up for the 3sec of their wasted time, with Fury warriors consistent damage output.
The solution is rader simple, back in legion warriors had Shockwave as a baseline talent and guess who suddenly was viable for dungeons due to mass enterupt on pulls?
This expansion so far has done nothing but peel away at the warriors utility whiles throwing more at other classes like Battle resses for paladins just one example.
I miss my berserk rage, i miss my piercing howl, i miss the controll i used to have but no… rallying cry is al we have and are forced to take
You can still take berserker rage and even improve it to affect the whole party, you can still bring a combatress as a warrior and you even have access to shockwave as a DPS and a tank.
I could list all the things, but I have done so before, it usually ends with people saying “But I can not take that!” based on opinions and not the fact that you indeed can.
Though, I would agree - Legion was a more fun time to be warrior overall.
I think it is very good that we have to choose shockwave for mythic+ and go a different path for raiding. I’d like them to adjust the general talent tree to add utility to the m+ path with shock wave and make this path be the best option for m+ including the last talents of that path, while thunderous roar should be the go-to for raiding. Spear of bastion is a really weird ability and I hate it personally in every way, but if anything, we should only be using it in pvp, but sadly it’s meta for raiding.
