Ideas for warrior utility

Why are you doing anti warrior propaganda on a lvl 60 warrior? :rofl: go level first, then talk

2 things.

  1. Are you sure this is a warrior problem or a DPS problem? Are you confident that if you logged onto a ‘meta’ DPS spec you’d find groups much faster?

My (limited) experience has been that this is more of a DPS problem than a class problem. I typically tank and i’m not sure if you’ve made your own group, but if you have a high-demand key you will get literally 50 DPS signing up within 15 seconds of listing your group. You can then pick the highest rated players with your personal preference of utility (for me, bloodlust, aoe stuns, purges.) Adding utility to warrior might not make any difference if this is just a reality that well over 60% of the playerbase plays a DPS.

  1. If warriors are not taken for utility, then that means other specs/classes are being taken for that utility. Giving warriors an aoe soothe probably won’t do much if the in-demand utility is aoe CC, ranged kicks or enormous passive cleave.

That said, assuming we aren’t just giving warriors bloodlust, ranged kicks and so on - an idea i’ve had for awhile is:

  • a sort of Kratos blades of chaos ability where you throw out two weapons on chains in front of you in a V shaped cone, you then collapse them together and pull them towards you. Enemies within the V shaped cone are pulled towards you. Imagine a reverse typhoon. A cone shaped grip/mob gathering button.

Presumably to stop warriors being a menace in PvP it would replace something else as a choice node, like heroic leap.

Mob gathering buttons, especially in pugs, are worth their weight in gold and I can tell you as a tank if warriors had an ability like this i would take them to every key.

Fury warriors are a meta spec. Groups in very high keys run fury warriors without shockwave just as a damage carry, so our usefulness as a fury warrior 100% solely relies on our damage and this feels bad. For pugs, and I believe this is due to warriors not having enough cc or any form of utility, it’s also just not safe to invite a fury warrior. It’s way safer to take a more useful dps like a rogue or shadowpriest. I think this can be resolved though by replacing spear of bastion with a more reliable form of cc. I don’t want blood lust though personally. Maybe a choice talent node to change rallying cry into something more useful in dungeons could work. I like AOE disarm for example, a shout to remove enrage, or a shout to reduce haste of enemy trash mobs

Definitly warrior need BL and SW with the same dps right now to be taken in M+. I see some troll here telling warrior dont need nothing probably the guy never did a 20 in his entire life so yeah… blizz know we lack on utility in M+.

Well, either utility or they should make our dps absolutely insane and make us scale really hard with support specs like the new evoker. Honestly though, the easiest solution is probably to just shift shockwave in the tree, so we can take it very easy together with storm bolt and intimidating shout and make a 4th last row that doesn’t just buff shockwave. This way we have even more damage with 1 more cc ability than usual. The new last row could simply be something that prot would love to take to fix prot’s problems instead of just sonic boom, etc.

Firstly, I think we have do make a clear distinction between warriors in PUG groups and warriors in already established groups with friends or high end.

PUGs in general are made to be mistake proof, meaning that you will stack on specific classes that help you avoid specific mechanics of problematic bosses, or with specific affixes, for example this week every PuG group will be chasing for Shadow Priest. Do you need shadow priest to compete this week? No but it will make stuff a lot easier. For PUGs you will generally need 2 CR, one BL that is already 3 spots warriors cant fill.

Main problem with warriors in PUG groups is that our utility is not rly helping to make that group fool proof.

Rallying cry is one of the strongest utility abilities you can have, but if its not coordinated with your healer and your group, and that is generally very hard to do in PUGs, it just becomes meh that will help you in times, and you will have to develop sense to when to use it, but you will never rly use it to its full potential, without coordinated groups.

Also right usage of Rallying cry comes with trial and error, meaning that entire group needs to do dungeon multiple times to know what is best moment to use Rallying cry.

Higher end groups doing higher keys, will 100% benefit from Rallying cry, and will help them save and preserve some of the important CDs they have.

Same goes for spell reflect, it can be very good, but you will almost never use it in that sense in PUG groups.

That is why I think people in pug groups are sleeping on warriors its a different world and I think making argument that “warriors are good in higher end so they do not need any changes” that argument in my opinion is very dishonest, because 99,99% of people playing mythic plus will see warriors as barely usable, especially rallying cry, because here is the thing, faster and easier you finish the dungeon, chances of that PUG falling apart are much much lower, and for that you will need “must pick” specs for that week. If we follow that line of thinking some classes like priest should be buched of a lot of their utility and damage because, they dominate both higher and lower end M+ scene this season.

Now I do think idea of “Derage shout” and Warrior BL is good, or even maybe armor shatter type ability that will increase damage on specific mob, not only because it will help warriors find more concrete place in specific M+ scenarios, and we will have that “I am best spec for this dungeon or this affix” feeling that almost all classes have in one way or another, but this will open more options for different compositions, given that warrior tank can be BL spec now, that opens a lot of new and interesting options to in my opinion already stale composition meta of M+.

How bad Warrior utility problem is right now, points the fact that Warrior tanks are almost nowhere to be seen in mythic plus nowdays, simply because utility other classes bring overshadows sheer damage warrior can output, same goes for DPS warriors.

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Ok, so you do agree warrior is already good if not great at the high end - especially Fury Warrior in context. So, if we give warrior even more - then something must be taken to balance it out, don’t you agree?

Now to the argument warrior is useless is in PuGs seems totally off, as Fury Warrior is one of the tankiest and got one of the most stable DPS profiles of all the specs/classes in the game. You don’t need to pull around a Fury Warrior, it will just pump.

The main reason you always see Fury Warrior high up there is because:

  • Spell Reflect is broken
  • DPS profile is adjustable for the key/group in question, without many drawbacks
  • Fury brings ST and AoE stops
  • It is extremely tanky
  • Rally allows you to take mechanics the group would otherwise wipe to, buying time

We got 3 Fury warriors in the top 20 alone. https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-2/all/world/leaderboards and they are there because WARRIOR DO BRING UTILITY AND DAMAGE, stop smoking and huffing doomium.

Protection warrior is not brought because of lack of utility, it is because DH bring more damage and survivalbility. With the DMG nerfs prot faced, and ‘bug fixes’ - they went from a big DPS spec to a small DPS spec. In keys killtimers matter a lot. So bringing the class that does close to twice their DPS just makes more sense. So ask for a DPS buff - not utility.

The only reason people don’t bring Fury warriors is because they don’t understand the value it brings. It is not a class problem, it is a perception problem. Arms and protection both suffer from beingsubpar DPS specs, and it got nothing to do with utilty.
(Also, warrior can bring combatress, so please, stop yammering about that over and over)

My point is that in most pugs the DPS of fury warrior does not justify the loss in potential CC and utility at all. You would have to make Fury warriors deal extreme damage like shadow priest almost in order to make them worth it for a PUG. The problem with pugs is that your CCs are not perfectly assigned, you’re not on voice, and a lot of accident happen constantly, where it’s good to have classes like paladins, who can just lay on hands someone quickly. I think it’s fine that we don’t have as much utility as paladins, but they just need to give us more valuee in groups like crazy dps, more cc or other utility to justify our spot in M+ for lower content. Spell reflect is broken, but you require 2 big weakauras and a spreadhseet to just know when to press it, or when you’re being targeted by a horde of mobs, so that’s not really nice for most warrior players compared to other classes, which don’t even require 20% the effort to use their best utility spell. We are extremely tanky. Defensive stance is probably the best defensive ability in the game, especially combined with our other cooldowns and victory rush. They really need to do something about our group-wide value though, not only our egoistical value, if that makes sense.

TLDR: I would like personally to just get more debuff utility like mass disarm, or demo shout baseline. Another cool thing would be to have group-wide spell reflect, so we only focus on the ability, and not on whom it’s casted

Are you saying that Fury Warrior can not compete on DPS meters with Shadow Priest? They are both at worst equal, normally you will see the Fury Warrior ahead at equal skill/gear level.

When accidents happen, Rally will solve it, you don’t need LoH, as you LoH yourself. We have a ton of CC, in ST stun, AoE stun and AoE fear. You don’t really lose anything bringing a Fury Warrior - you simply gain.

I am so confused, because we must come from two different worlds at the moment. Because in the world I am in - Fury pumps and stomps the competition. Warrior brings the stops, the DPS and the utility. Spell Reflect turns bosses to mush.

If we got more utility - our damage would have to be reduced to compensate. If they buff our damage, utility must be reduced to compensate. Fury warrior in particular is in such a good spot balance-wise that any changes would break the spec.

Well, they could just make spell reflect easier to use by making it group wide with a longer cooldown, bring a choice-node for rallying cry to make it more effective in M+, maybe make shock wave easier to get without sacrificing too much. I’m also against heroism for warriors, even though thematically it would be a perfect fit. But yeah, I also don’t wanna end up like hunters, who do have heroism xd

If SR was groupwide, you would destroy bosses to such a degree it wont make sense. 5x poision reflect, 5x flamewreathe reflects… We are talking about chunking 20-30% of the boss max HP per cast then.

My man, I understand you want more for nothing. But this is going beyond crazy levels of powerspikes.

it can simply be a choice node to make it group wide and each reflect does 20% damage. Or the total amount of reflected damage is split between each reflect. Easily solved.

So you make your group immune to a whole mechanic, on what, a 3 min CD?

My brain hurts. I need to take a breather.

Well, they could change our playstyle/utility to give us the ability to make the entire group very tanky by having group wide spell reflect, baseline demo shout, enrage removal, etc. I think it would be cool, but I also understand it, if you want fury warrior to be a full dps carry. I don’t rly care about dps tbh, I care more about fun. I like our playstyle now for example. It’s nice to swap between stances, etc. but if it was more group oriented, we would have way more value

I get basically instant invited, so yeah. I can get your wish. But do know it is very often that you are just behind the gear/score curve. Once you are over that hurdle again, you will see invites :dracthyr_blob_dance_animated:

Well, I asked someone recently about this, and he told me that he would never voluntarily invite a warrior to a pug. I also get instant invites to +16, because I overgeared it hard, and have higher rio, but to +18-20 it’s very rare to get invites, because that’s my current level of skill. If you have 2.7k rio, and apply to +20, it’s clear you get invited. That has nothing to do with your class. That’s just content that you already mastered then.

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Well said, this post right here is what warrior needs.
Blood lust would solve all warrior pugging problems. There is nothing against being having great dps and utility we have playing with fire mages that top dps in everything+ they had bl same with survival hunter best aoe spec + blood lust same with warlock destro was broken broken + had cr and in bfa rouge was the best and only melee you would bring and it have shroud tons of ccs and utility. Blood lust warrior wouldn’t make warrior broken or whatever it would just fill groups faster many many times this expansion people have waited for bl class missing alot of good healers because they are not shaman or evoker and because im in group first they wouldn’t kick me because of politeness so we . It’s finally the time we give warrior blood lust ability.

I hope you can see the irony

No because warriors already lack stuff, desperately so, this is why many people are constantly complaining about that.

Almost all other specs have something that will help group in M+.

Just look at paladins, a class that has more damage than warriors, arguably are more survivable, wrecks stuff in higher end M+ keys, being present in almost every single top 20 key.

You simply can not tell me that warriors getting BL will somehow brake them, more then paladins having CR.

No its not, you can use it to your advantage but you will not brake fights, at best case scenario you will prevent damage on yourself on your party member and do some damage in the process.

What does this even mean? Fury warrior is 5 target cleave spec, you pull more then 5 targets fury warrior dps is going to sharply decrease compared to almost all other specs.

Like every single spec in the game.

True, but so is paladin, warlock, death knight. Interestingly all of this specs have cr, or some very beneficial utility.

No good group will wipe to a mechanic without rally, that is simply explained by the fact that many groups finished higher keys without warrior. Rally helps, its never mandatory, like mass dispel for example.

You are basically saying, “Fury is good trust me bro rest of people simply have wrong idea” this is a MMO, value of the spec, comes from community, and people playing that spec or class will feel first hand what value community placed on their spec.

Fury is not undervalued because the community is simply sleeping on it, it is because if there is warrior, paladin, shaman, monk, mage and priest in que for your group you are not inviting warrior, plain and simple.

And yes we can also bring drums, does not change the fact this is simply a weaker option, and most people will prefer to have real cr, and real bloodlust in their group.

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Yeah, because in most of this higher end keys you are so vocal about shadow priest is crushing fury warrior with 20-30k dps difference overall damage, that is something like 30-40 million more damage done. Add to that, PI, and mass dispell and there you go reason to simply not bring warrior.

No, no it wont, this clearly shows me you have no idea what you are talking about, rally will help group only if accidents do not happen, meaning that in anticipation of high damage you can use rally to lower overall damage mostly aimed at unavoidable damage, to help your healer save some cds. If somebody dies from some sort of avoidable damage you can cast 5 rallies that group will probably wipe. Rally wont save people who do not step away from one shot mechanics, once you get in 20+ areas.

As I said, rally is used pre planed, to make fight a bit easier on healer.

What world are you talking about, you are simply refusing to look at the logs and see that warriors are nowhere near “OP” and “Crushing” when it come to dps meters, in fact they are right in the middle in most single target or AOE encounters.

You are talking like warriors are consistently bringing 50-100k more damage, that simply is not the case, in most scenarios warriors will easily be overshadowed by Paladins, Shamans, and Priests in damage, not to mention utility.

Tell me a scenario where you turn boss to mush simply by using spell reflect. One scenario where one hard boss will be extra easy with spell reflect.

I rly cant understand you, you are here sitting on this forums consistently spewing some stupid arguments, that clearly nobody agrees on, you are mostly talking about theoretical possibilities of warrior kit, that are almost never practically used in runs because they are often too much of a hindrance even for high-end groups.

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