Ideas for warrior utility

Classes Warrior
41

If you are complaining about not getting into your weekly 20s, or you can’t find someone to play with. If you have no options to play warrior no matter the situation and you are not in an environment where warrior’s current power is appreciated, we are in different worlds. Because where I am at, we are brought and sought out as a good pick for m+ and raid. I can not say you do not get declined, I can not say you feel this is because warrior is bad - and it isn’t a you problem. Because your world at whatever state you are in, seemingly is not the same as myself.

You agree that warrior bring “the same thing as every other spec in the game”, we do not bring a dispell, we bring spell reflect. And on and on. Repeated en infinitum.

Fury is in the middle of pure DPS averages, we are also far from the bottom. We are balanced in a raid setting. In m+, we are doing insane stable numbers if you go Fury Warrior. We got at least two to three warriors in the top 20 of top m+ keys. We can not complain being bad, when warriors are brought to complete and push the hardest content out there. It clearly says that the problem is you that complain for no reason other than your feelings-

I understand you don’t see the value of not only not getting the poision debuff on the worm boss in NL, nor do you see the double value of actually sending the damage back. You do not taunt and spell reflect the whole tankbuster in HoI - the only reason Fury Warriors can reach close to 200k overalls in that dungeon (The higher the key - the more the damage, the SR power scales). Sending back a 400k random mob hit or ignoring a mechanic? Totally useless in your world.

Warrior do not bring 50-100k more damage, that would be absurd. Nor should it. Classes like SP will perform higher numbers on AoE pulls with uncapped damage profiles. Yet, they suffer on bossfights and that overall goes down. Fury Warrior pumps damage no matter the scenario - so at the end of the key, you will end at 150k, and the SP will end at 150k. Even if the SP pumped 500k and you 350k on those packs.

There clearly is an echo chamber in this forum, this is why I feel it is more important than normal to take a stand against it. Because if you leave this place, you go to Skyhold or other places where the theorycrafters and pushers are - you will not find the same sentiment. Because they know, as I know - warrior, especially Fury Warrior, is more than fine at the moment and completely balanced.

I know doomers want to doom. I just hope that the normal people who just casually checks once in a while will see my posts and understand that the dooming is far from the reality of the situation.

42

Just to give you some perspective i took the top 20 best log of FH23 for all S and A tier dps spec (according to subcreation dot net) and computed the average dps

Spec average dps of top 20 best for FH 23
SP 183,778.56
moon 163,049.17
deva 158,539.12
sub 158,068.18
ENH 154,955.53
Fury 152,464.25
Ret 145,750.59
Havoc 143,405.85
ww 136,141.93

So yeah Fury is crushing everyone else with its utility and dmg…

2 Likes
43

i havent even red the threat but i red something about buffing mobility of warriors and i just came to tell you to touch grass cause if this happens people will cry
and if people cry more than just the mobility they given you will go away. :smiley:

44

Only asking for m+ utility, don’t want mobility stuff at all. (I know I have pvp gear, but that’s just for my solo shuffle experiment). I think we warriors either need to always be in top 3 DPS, or we need utility. Else it’s unbalanced for dungeons, and there is no reason to invite us over any other class.

45

I mean there at least 2-3 other classes that play like warrior.
just saying :smiley:

1 Like
46

I am not playing weekly 20s anymore, nor I aim to just complete weekly 20s.

I am talking about pushing, if you are a warrior who completed 21++, you will almost never get invited into 22, no matter your previous experience, while other specs will get invited into keys just because of their utility, even if player is a bit under the curve.

Clearly you play in a separate world from all other warriors, or your idea of “good spec” is spec that gets invited into sub 20s. I can get instantly invited in 16, thing is I do not care about that difficulty anymore. When it comes to pushing rating, that is where problem appears. Most warriors can only use their own keys, and that is a awful experience for multiple reasons.

And again, how many affixes can spell reflect deal with?

And how many priests, paladins, shaman, mages and druids you have in that top 20?

What are you on about, not single fury warrior reached 200k in higher keys. Again you are making arguments as you go fully unsupported by anything. Highest done key Fury had 140k. While SP and Shaman in his group had 160k and 156k.

Nothing you said here will turn boss into “mush” your party can still die. As I said its a self-preservation ability, more then anything else, sure you will have easier time with the boss, it does not mean your party will.

If you ever stopped and read a single bloody argument, then anybody on this forum wrote, you would know that Balance is not the problem, problem is the fact that community at large does not see warriors are usable or worth bringing.

We simply do not bring utility that is generally accepted as important. Nor we have a defined place in any affix, rotation.

Nope, most people in Skyhold would agree that giving Warriors some utility would mean a lot in terms of quality of life.

Now I will tell you why utility is more important then damage, its because damage is seasonal thing, it changes, one season one spec will dominate, another season other spec will dominate, but with specific utility every single spec will have a place if its utility is beneficial to the group.

That is what the problem is, in case of warriors you do not bring the class, you bring the player, and in most cases you will bring somebody who is 200 rio higher then you expecting a boost.

You will never invite a warrior on your skill level, because you will invite something that will make the group less likely to wipe, that will make mechanics easier for entire group, or that will allow you to skip packs, or fasten progress in any other way.

Firstly, all you do is you “trust me bro” arguments that just shows me you clearly do not main warrior.

Your devotion to be a consistent contrarian, in every single, argument, valid argument at that is truly a marvel to behold. I truly do not see a point in you doing this, apart from being a troll, that I slowly realize you probably are.

For every single concern, your only answer is “What about spell reflect?”

Apart from your explanations being non-specific, you are consistently overstating ability, or subjective performance of utility we have, you are constantly overestimating our damage and our rankings in damage meters overall. You are on every single thread in this forum screaming same arguments over and over again, and moment you are pressure to explain them you just start repeating.

There is a persistent issue, from origins of Mythic +, back in Legion, about warriors and our lack of utility.

Conversation about this issue, recently intensified, because or class changes and many other classes got stuff they previously did not have. All this changes put warrior, in de facto class that has the least amount of party beneficial ability.

Is warrior bad? No, I play it and have good time pushing my own keys this season. That is important part “My own keys”

This season I got invited once or twice in key difficulty I did not previously do in over a 100 done dungeons.

This creates a very frustrating experience where if you do not manage to keep your key in area you want to push, you are pretty much done for the week, you will not invited into keys you want to push, because you are a warrior.

That is what most people are complaining about.

1 Like
47

As of now this is not the truth anymore. There isn’t any warrior in the top 20 runs, but regardless of that, you can’t gauge their usefulness by this anyway, because at so high keys individual players set/decide the meta, because the meta is simply what they wanna play. The problem is that our raw dps is not worth the lack of utility at all. It’s only worth to bring warriors to raiding.

The worst thing about this is that it’s not just mathematically not worth it, it’s obviously not worth in a way that an average player can see, and even if you take things like spell reflect into consideration, spell reflect requires 2 weakaura packages to be useful, because when a tank pulls 8 mobs, gl telling when you’re being targeted by a spell. If it was a group-wide spell deflect though instead of a spell reflect, warriors would all of the sudden become very useful

1 Like
48

If you want to discuss in more details, than in general, please do go to Skyhold and talk to the actual pushers. Both Agamand, Warbringer and Est is there regulary. If warrior is in a bad state, we are loud about it - as with the old warrior tierset, but when it comes to non-issues like warrior lacking utilty, we just got to shrug. It is not what would hold us back. You guys repeat the same things: No heroism, no stuns (cant take shockwave because DPS loss ), cant take stormbolt or inti shout (cause DPS loss), SR doesn’t work because you need addons to use it, no combatress - as engi wrists doesnt work on your character, and so on. It is a headache to hear it on repeat. We do not need heroism, as we bring our own kit advantages and drawbacks.

I am sorry you are not getting invited to others keys, I really am. Yet, if you are behind the curve you will not be taken over that other guy that is ahead of it. After 21 the only goal is pushing upwards, and hamstring yourself with an uncertain pick is not worth it. You would not bring a 2.8k warrior, paladin or shadowpriest. You bring the guys with 2.9k, and so on. Bringing a Fury Warrior will decrease your chance to wipe by a ton, as it is a safe pick - even so, you rather bring the more experienced player even if it is a hunter (and hunters got a reason to cry out for buffs, even with heroism at their beck and call) or the even bigger warrior.

If you are having a bad pug experience, the solution is as always - do not PuG it, network and go premade. Networking is harder work than most players got the time, experience or energy to actually get done. Yet, it is the solution to your problems.

49

If you are not able to get worth out of SR in a key, especially NL, HoI, BHH or VP you are just a very lackluster warrior at the moment. Improve on it, SR will not let you down in the value it brings. Sure, it might not be very flashy, but when you go into higher keys the healers, tanks and even DPS will notice the effects from SR.

If warrior is in the top 10, it is not meta. If it is top 20 it is not meta. Even if Nauwh would go warrior - it would probably still not be concidered meta. Warrior got great raw DPS profile, we do not need to funnel and we are adaptable to most situations (other than gigamass AoE funnel). This is why esp Fury Warrior will never be a cheeze pick. Now - in most keys you do not do those funnel pulls, you do things without coms and do not play around the big CDs. That is the scenario Fury Warrior shine. In the end of the dungeon Fury Warrior will be on the same level as the enh shammy or SP, if not higher, all based on SR value. The higher the key - the higher the value in general.

Warrior is one of the few DPS that got damage scaling with the key level, while other classes scale with pullsizes and CD timeings. Combine that with being extremely durable and not to mention, extremely stable DPS with AoE stops, burst on demand and low CDs - it should be the pick to bring into your m+20 area PuGs.

Are there other classes that do outperform us? Sure, there are. Do we still pump and can compete in the top brackets in m+? Yes - we can and do. Do we need buffs? No, we do not.

50

It doesn’t matter: Enough warriors are annoyed by not getting invites. I don’t wanna be OP, but I’d like to be invited and bring something to the table. Spell reflect is not a reason to invite a warrior like me to pugs for 99% of people. I can’t even get invited to +16 this week despite being 440 ilvl and 2.3k rating.

51

I am sorry for your negative experiences. Do take hope though, once you catch back up to the curve it is like a door opening in a wall that you never thought you could pass.

There is a a barrier; just not the one you have started to focus on, you feel it is the reason why you are struggling - even when it is not the major factor. Once your gear is better and your score improved, you will feel the effects and change. Push always upwards, connect with players, add good fits to your friendlist and use that to expand your social interactions in the game -End game being: you get to build a team (playerpool) at your level of skill and with equal goals of play.

52

You are again using 3 potentially best warriors as source of your argument, fully aware that this people play the game differently then the rest of us. I do have respect for them, but they are not a representation of the entire situation. Good players like them can dominate on every class. They play warrior because they love to, all of them would probably be able to push a lot more a lot faster playing paladin.

Its not that it does not work on your character, is the fact that people want real CR, and not engi wrist. Engi wrist even if they do not fail are risky to use in chaotic situation, they are in my eyes simply addition to your group and never should replace class with actual CR.

What is the curve for 21s? Being top 100 warrior in the world?

Also this is not true, if you need BL you will bring 2850 shaman or evoker compared to 2900 rogue. If you need CR you will bring 2850 paladin or DK over 2900 warrior.

Also send me your main Warrior character just to see if you do what you preach.

Most people here as I said complain because warrior do not have well-defined, role in any M+ situation, we are good, however were are never best pick for situation, there is always better more beneficial option to bring, that is what the problem about lack of utility is being good does not make you desirable, being best in given situation is what makes you get invited into the group.

Most people here are mentioning BL because its easy to grasp option that will change nothing in how warrior plays, everything you are constantly saying will stay the same, warrior will still be survivable, warrior will still have consistent damage curve, and warrior will still be safe pick, however now you have more options as a warrior player making your own group, and, if you pick warrior you do not shoot yourself in the foot when making a group.

Apart from that Tank with bl will shake meta up a lot, and that in a way will give warrior tanks clear defined role and position in many new comps.

Same as Paladins and Death Knights are brought because of Combat Res, warriors will have place because of the BL.

But BL as I said is safe, easy to grasp and simple option, stuff like, derage shout, changes to demoralizing shout, or even disarm that will remove rage effects or lower damage enemies do, is what not many other classes have and will make warrior unique with as I said clearly defined place.

In this case you do not need to remove anything from warriors because we will not compete with spot, however bringing warrior will have clearly defined benefits.

Do not get me wrong all you said about utility being balance tool, makes sense 10 years ago, however they gave Paladins class that historically always had more utility then warrior combat res this expansion, one of the overall strongest abilities you can have for 5 man dungeons, exactly because they did not rly have clearly defined role in M+.

Given that into consideration your arguments rly do not make any sense, Paladins now do more damage, bring more survivability to the group overall, same as Spell reflect their BoP brakes and makes some mechanics fully ignorable and not just on you but on people who are targeted, same as FoM, have some very beneficial party buffs, and on top of all that they have combat res.

Nothing warrior have, even compares, except maybe a bit more survavibility.

Giving warrior BL would make less of a impact then giving Paladins combat ress.

I am only mentioning paladins to show you that what you think design philosophy of the classes is is simply not the case, Blizzard does not balance damage thinking of utility, because if they did, Hunters, DH and Warriors would have 20% more damage then anybody else.

This is not the case.

53

as warrior we dont need more mobility. we have plenty of that.

i agree with you that warrior is pretty tanky especially as fury. but when other classes are on par with dmg or even outperfom us and bring utility in form of cr or bl or cleanse or whatever i am definetly taking those classes over a warrior.

i am advocating for warrior getting blood lust cause both other plate classes have combat rezz.

other than that i really hope blizz will let intervene deal with afflicted. that would be a good way to increase our m+ viability

2 Likes
54

Pally getting combat res was a really bad change. Imagine giving a class that can be immune to damage, self heal to full and cheat death, a combat res.

They should have just given all healer specs a combat res, not Paladins.

56

New Idea: Put War Banner in general tree

1 Like
57

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