That’s literally one instance where he says US provided better feedback than EU. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about EU feedback in general.
HOWEVER, I understand why you’re annoyed about the dead servers. It’s unbelieveable the contrast between the server communities on Classic and on Retail. Classic just works 100 times better (save the botting).
The server situation needs to be sorted out 6 years ago. It’s insane it’s gone on so long it’s started to cause imbalance in the entire EU region.
it shows a mindset though. and along with other things and stances he’s taken in the past. why even say it on a live video? i agree its just one statement, but i’m unaware he’s said anything to show he’s changed that mindset in the 6 years since he’s said it?
TY osangar. dont know why i cant link youtube videos anymore :s
It’s a joke. You know, a funny segment in what’s supposed to be both an informing and entertaining documentary.
It’s not like the TV crew is there, and then Ion just randomly decides to check out the forums and make commentary on it. It’s staged and delivered with the purpose of segmenting into him talking about feedback and Blizzard’s development process.
For the lulz. Don’t read more into it than that.
“jason, theres actually some genuine feedback posts with a couple of links on the US forum. ummm if you go look at the EU feedback thread, you’ll see some, some things, but not necessarily feedback.”
51:10 - 51:27
that doesn’t imply thread singular. but i agree, it is just one example and may not be a genuine reflection of his opinion. BUT like i said, he hasn’t shown that he’s listening to us either.
tbh, i dont care about their lack or responses HERE. i care about their lack of responses in the game. actions speak louder than words.
if i cared only about words, then the times Ion said we’re dealing with dead servers, both in an interview and at blizzcon, would have made me happy, cause, well he said it didn’t he? Ion would never lie to me. cough lawyer cough
If it’s an example of anything, then it’s some folks being overly sensitive to the point where Blizzard are discouraged from engaging the community in discussion without the PR boys having to scrutinize and approve their every word, because those folks will take offense over anything imaginable.
its an example that Ion, and others are probably not the most apt for the position they hold. like i said, its not just this one thing. its a multitude of things, from removing flying in WoD and how hard they tried to stick to their guns on it, to the current corruption complaints.
and i’ve just had a thought. i wonder… how much WoD content was lost because they wanted to make, and keep, flying unavailable in WoD? i presume that not allowing flying in and of itself was probably just a flick of the switch, but then designing the whole expansion around not being able to fly…
just a thought. i presume a large amount of lost content was because of the work put into garrisons, but yeah, i wonder did removing flying actually hurt WoD more than we already think?
Yeah, I wouldn’t pay much attention to that. IIRC, there was already a kerfuffle about it, and it was explained. Something like, there was a raid test on Beta, and it went pear-shaped on EU realms, and whoever edited together the footage probably thought that would be a funny bit … which it was! … but it ended up leaving a false impression.
Yeah. THIS is the point. I don’t care whether Blizzard “hear my voice”. I want them to do The Right Thing (which, obviously, is whatever I’m asking for an any given day. )
On the US vs EU point, I have no doubt they pay more attention to the US, but anyone who reads both forums will know that mostly it really doesn’t matter much which one you read - they’re both saying the same things, with a bit of up and down between the prominence of topics.
We could say that they were specifically neglecting EU realms if the US wasn’t having the same problems - but they are.
Can you give an example of a person in a similar position you hold in higher regard, and why that is?
To me, both of those seem like solid examples of Blizzard listening to player feedback and iterating on their initial design.
No flying -> player feedback for and against flying -> design compromise -> Pathfinder.
Random Corruption effects on random items -> player feedback regarding agency and deterministic progression -> design iteration -> Corruption vendor and currency.
To me those are examples where Blizzard have actually listened to the feedback and made changes accordingly.
It doesn’t cost any content. It’s merely a design preference.
Blizzard – as game designer – don’t like flying, because it undermines their own game design when you can just fly over walls and enemies, and you don’t progress through a zone the way the artist envisioned it.
On the other hand the ability to fly offers a lot of convenience for the player, and speeds up the game and allows for more things to be done in less time.
It doesn’t really have anything to do with production. It’s purely about what kind of game you want WoW to be and how it should be experienced.
The feedback in regards to flying is of course divided and polarized. It’s not like it’s Blizzard versus the community. Within the community there’s quite the divide in regards to being for or against flying. And even within Blizzard there was such a divide, as Ion said in his post back in WoD on the topic.
A similar but older example comes from Warcraft III where Blizzard internally were very divided, and the player community was also very divided.
Naval combat.
Warcraft II had ships and oil rigs and naval warfare.
Some RTS games had both ground, flying, and naval combat, and others had less than all 3.
With Warcraft III Blizzard settled on ground and flying only, a departure from the naval combat in Warcraft II and other popular RTS games that also had naval combat – Red Alert, Age of Empires, etc…
But it’s design preference. There’s no right or wrong. It’s purely a matter of game vision.
its not about being higher regard, but its a face for the brand that looks like its happy to be there. Ion always looks emotionless as i’ve said many times. im not knocking him specifically for that. people have said i always look emotionless. but im not the face of a multi million £ game. as i’ve said before, Chris Metzan always looked more happy to be there.
they came dragging and screaming. i’d have to go back for exact dates, but iirc, even just 2 weeks before 6.2 released they were sticking to their guns about no flying. they had just lost too many subs and the game was in a bad place, this was one of the big issues being brought up along with lack of content. even the way pathfinder was implemented shows their spite at being forced to bring back flying, by delaying pathfinder for half an expansion, and tying rep grinds to it.
corruptions i cant really talk about cause i dont play retail now. i logged on last weekend just to get the cloak (cause blizz loves removing things) and it just gave me a headache all the cross systems involved for a new/returning player. theres at least 3 curriences involved in 8.3 alone. 4 if you include the cloak rank up mechanic. but corruption was brought in at the end of BfA and is just the latest in an emergency bandaid approach to azerite throughout the expanion. Flying was removed at the very start of WoD.
it was just a thought cause like i said, they had to design the WHOLE of WoD around no flying.
then why did they bring it in in 2007? and why was nothing done about it for 8 years?
i dont recall seeing ANY let alone a lot of calls to remove flying until AFTER it was removed in WoD. i can imagine that some people didn’t like it for world pvp in 2007 but i personally didn’t see anyone complain. of course, i could be wrong. i dont know what millions of players think of it. all i have is blizz’s word and a few people who say its a bad thing.
but even with the only thing it effecting being world pvp, world pvp was far more alive, even on pve servers in the past than it has been recently. recent world pvp is just gank fests on wq points.
I’m not really sure what the criticism is here.
You want Ion to smile more or what?
I mean, if you just want a pretty face to be the outward image of Blizzard, then I’m sure Blizzard can hire some dazzling top model that can woo the playerbase.
But I think most players appreciate that the communication actually comes from the developers themselves, regardless of how introverted and nerdy they may appear. It’s genuine. It seems petty to criticize the value of first-hand information because you don’t like the way it presents itself.
Of all the products you use in your life, how many of those companies deliver that same first-hand information to their customers on a similar basis?
You’re spinning things in a negative light, for what reason?
I mean, they presented a design, there was a community discussion, some feedback, and then they iterated. How is that somehow a bad outcome? That is the ideal as far as developer to community interaction goes.
Again, this is needless spin to attach a narrative where no narrative is needed.
There’s a game system introduced. There’s some feedback on it. And then there’s some iteration as the design changes to accommodate that feedback. All-around a good design process.
Well of course, as it was not the plan to introduce flying. But flying or no flying doesn’t really mean anything in terms of production anymore, because all of WoW is fully modeled these days.
The only time it’s cost production to go from no flying to flying was when they introduced it in Azeroth in Cataclysm and they had to flesh out all the parts of the world you previously couldn’t get to.
Ever since then they’ve always fully modeled all the zones in the expansions, so they’re made for flying, regardless of whether it’s on or off.
It’s only Vanilla WoW that was designed around no flying, because they used a lot of smoke and mirrors back then (hello Stormwind cathedral).
Because it was a major feature and selling point of TBC and a natural requested feature for a first expansion by the players, and a natural feature for the developers to deliver on.
But no one had the foresight to envision the consequences of flying 10 years later. I mean, bloody hell, at the time there wasn’t many who thought WoW would still be played 10 years later!
Then that’s just you. Not sure what else to say there. The no-flying club was in business long before WoD.
Disagree. World PvP during Faction Assaults in patch 8.1 was the most alive World PvP has been in a decade, to the point where so many people participated that the servers were crippled on a daily basis. That’s been some of the best World PvP I’ve done in a long long time.
You could say this about the systems in game, people would be happier with less but more quality progression systems then having many lacking systems overlapping each other leading in pointless grinds when people just want to enjoy doing other things in game.
im sorry, but its impossible to discuss things with someone like you. and as i read more of your post i believe i have seen you post in the past basically always on blizz’s side however mindless the defense used.
i will answer just one point which you just dismiss out of hand.
how is this needless spin? the basic azerite system and its hotfixes (essences & corruption) already existed in a far BETTER system in legion aka artifacts. but even then, they had been tried and test with feedback on negative effects of switching specs or alts, and the endless grind of AP.
for blizz to basically take the same system, water it down and not fix the known issues on launch is just blind shortsightedness.
blizz has done many great things in the past, and again, i never criticize the art or music team. even the raids are usually top notch, BoD for example being a contender for best raid ever.
but some of the decision makers are doing things for whatever reason, and the effect is unhappy players and disdain thrown on the staff of blizzard where thats not where its meant to be aimed. ie. i would wager that people who complain about blizzard and WoW NEVER are complaining about the art or music teams, but they get lumped in with the complaints.
but stick with your stances. a closed mind (at least in regards to WoW, i dont know you outside the game) usually stays closed.
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