Just some points that have completely failed to hit the undead monstrosity mark:
1) No fear, we literally cause no form of fear which is mind boggling with this entire theme
2) The specs are way too specific that it seems to interfere what the class could potentially be, unholy got a nice update ith legion but is still missing the mark by alot for many
3) The systems in place have simply died, runes are pointless now and the runic power doesn't do a whole lot, much of this comes down to randomising the rune refresh.
4) Everyone and their mother now has all of the strengths of a death knight now such as multi charge abilities and constantly flowing gameplay, while also covering one or more of its weaknesses.
5) We don't even know what a death knight is anymore, we do not have any clue what the ebon blade stands for since legion, let alone what we are even doing in the alliance or horde, especially after a certain attack on a certain important place in legion.
6) the runeforge has just become meaningless at this point, saves a bit of money though i guess.
7) Despite it's lack of speed, it does not have the kind of toughness you would expect to make up for this despite its trademark heavy plate armour.
8) It has a frost themed spec that almost never uses actual frost effects, with powerful slows/immobilises etc like the frost mage does, only remorseless winter, frostwyrm fury and chains of ice have frost attached to them, born of frost but never using it.
9) Blood stealing the Bone spells maks little sense, I would of thought this spec would be about draining the living of life, with little care for the dead afterwards.
10) There is no point in trying to defend it at the moment, Every single mark has been missed with regards to not only what the player expects from the class as a whole but also what blizzard said the class was meant to be, an icy dk who doesnt ice, a diseasy dk who doesnt debuff and a vampire dk who relies on shields...
Just what was blizzard even trying to do with this class recently? none of the specs make any sense for what they appear to be right now.
Frost should be freezing and heavily slowing things while being slow and tough itself, it should be a challenge to escape them and absoloutely critical if you cannot.
Unholy should be debuffing enemies, reducing their attributes, lowering their output and messing with their abilities while their armies tear them apart.
Blood should be primarily focused on its ability to heal itself rather than shield, draining health from it's enemies while having a much higher health pool than any other tank, essentially they would be to take hits flat out and then restore their health afterwards.
The entire issue is that instead of focusing on making the death knight tougher and centring it around its strength, the class has been getting pushed towards what other classes already excel at, which is a futile endeavor, a too many chefs situation, you can't make everyone the best at mobile hitter so why bother? get rid of that meddlesome mobility at put some actual defensive gameplay back into the game, remove mobility from other classes if that is a problem, not give mobility to classes that would find it harmful to their entire theme.
Agreed. DKs are a mess right now.
13 Likes
6) the runeforge has just become meaningless at this point, saves a bit of money though i guess.
Not even that... Class is getting "balanced" with runeforge. We lack enchantment slot if there are any weapon enchants and we just waste time everytime we get a new weapon.
3 Likes
But think, they saved money doing such a half assed job,
1 Like
In simpler terms, specs need to be more defined, narrowed down to a single sentence to how they should play in my opinion:
Frost - Physical/Frost bursts, like a sudden blizzard. Blood - Vampyric Tank, stealing the life energy of their foe Unholy - Decay, a melee version of affliction warlock with high pressure.
8 Likes
05/11/2018 10:51Posted by DeathvargIn simpler terms, specs need to be more defined, narrowed down to a single sentence to how they should play in my opinion:Frost - Physical/Frost bursts, like a sudden blizzard. Blood - Vampyric Tank, stealing the life energy of their foe Unholy - Decay, a melee version of affliction warlock with high pressure.
Frost - is physical/frost without burst
Blood - is ok
Unholy -is without high pressure aoe bot
1 Like
05/11/2018 13:29Posted by Keishawyen05/11/2018 10:51Posted by DeathvargIn simpler terms, specs need to be more defined, narrowed down to a single sentence to how they should play in my opinion:Frost - Physical/Frost bursts, like a sudden blizzard. Blood - Vampyric Tank, stealing the life energy of their foe Unholy - Decay, a melee version of affliction warlock with high pressure.
Frost - is physical/frost without burst
Blood - is ok
Unholy -is without high pressure aoe bot
B A L A N C E D
blizzard inc.
1 Like
Superior Idea.
2 Likes
Funny, how much time paying customers invest into doing blizzards job compared to actually blizzard employees.
11 Likes
Best thing i've read in a while. Mail that sh!t in caps to blizz support.
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I guess I should add something else here and it is about the current way that runes work and why they are inferior on every level to the original way.
The current system has only a single option in all situations, there is pretty much no alteration to what you are doing ever, you simply have your priority system of 1>2>3>4 and that is all you have for any given situation.
The old way that runes worked enabled you to always have 2 viable and powerful options available to you at all times:
do you reapply your DoTs or do you direct damage to try a faster kill?
Do you heal or do you do more direct damage?
Do you attack at ranged or do you wait to get close for a bit more damage?
obviously there were more than this in the old style but this was the general appeal and superiority of the original system over the current system.
If I recall, they changed it because some randoms complained they were losing damage by “overcapping” and the problem with this arguement is that is not actally a bad thing, the ability to overcap afforded you the ability to stockpile significantly more often to utilise the capabilities that you wanted and needed to at a given and anticipated time. (there is now a wait of 20 seconds of doing nothing to do this as opposed to the 10 seconds under the previous system, i think you will agree this is not good at all and counter to what the system itself is meant to be about)
In essence they changed the system because of a GOOD aspect of the class and turned it into a very, very bad version with RNG telling you wether you will do that extra damage rather than using your own judgement on wether you should sacrifice in the short term to stockpile or unload some damage immediately.
This change was the beginning of the downfall of the death knight, only barely holding up because it originally utilised some of the original aspects of the rest of the class and the more of these they removed, the worse the class ended up until we got to todays death knight state.
The sad thing is, some people actually believe that the current system is better despite most factors pointing to it being bad, not least the fact that it does not fit the death knights theme because death is absoloute, a consistant force and yet death knights are not while they use this.
7 Likes
- That’s why it’s called a specialization. You excel at some things, but are bad at others. The balance between the good and the bad is questionable, but not the principle. That makes the flavor. I like Blood & Frost, and find Unholy meh. It’s not my gameplay style.
- I enjoy that now we have 6 runes instead of 2 blood, 2 frost, and 2 unholy.
But I would like that our rune refresh be replaced by extra runic power generation. Runes would come in a predictable manner, while runic power would be more chaotic, but as it’s a “fuel gauge”, it cause less randomness in our decision process. (Procs are there for that already). Runes should be a management mechanic.
- I can’t support you in being spiteful that other classes don’t have clunky gameplay anymore. Everyone is entitled to have a fun gameplay, not just us. (And still, Paladin feel very clunky to me).
- Blood sucks life from its opponent to keep on fighting seemingly forever unless overwhelmed or doing tactical mistakes. Frost is about dealing damage, being slow but preventing ennemies form escaping him, Unholy is about overwhelming enemies with diseases and undead minions. They’re well defined. They may need some fiddling to be more balanced and enjoyable in PvP.
- Runeforge always was “meaningless” because it’s passive.
- Mostly a PvP issue, I agree with it.
- That’s plenty of slowing effects already. That they’re not effective enough in PvP situation is an other story, but we have a spamable range slow, death grip, AoE slow on short cooldown. It’s already a good number of abilities.
- Blood didn’t steal bone spells from anything, they had bones shield for years. It was a defensive cooldown during Cataclysm/MoP. I like how it is currently.
- That’s exagerated, they didn’t missed every single mark. Each spec is doing what the fantasy of the spec is, but it is not limited to only doing that. And I think it’s for the better.
3 Likes
So, this class is fine then? Okay boys, discussion’s over. DK turns out to be good, it seems. That’s why ppl reroll )) you smartass
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That is a strawman, Ashenvane. I never said that DKs are fine, I said that DKs don’t need a full rework. Rework means something is utterly broken and it would need too much tweak or adjustment to fix it so better scrap everything and start over.
Which literally describes the current state of the entire death knight class down to the letter.
3 Likes
That’s where we disagree. I enjoy Blood & Frost gameplay, so I would prefer tweaks and adjustment rather than a rework.
And I don’t enjoy pressing spells, that have little to no synergy with each other. And I don’t enjoy unholy dk animations, being a huge disappointment. And I don’t enjoy, that this class is slow, but not deadly. I don’t understand how ppl are so not demanding in game design nowadays. We traded variety of options for new animations.
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Obliteration is one talent that actually has quite good synergy with the rest off the spells, however it requires so much effort to pull off for so little. Perfect timing and execution, only to barely come close to someone who spends the whole fight pressing 1 button
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This is because obliteration only gives the illusion that it is doing something:
It is a passive which lets a spec that focuses on obtaining high critical chance crit and so the killing machine aspect will more than likely do nothing with you likely critting anyway on that hit.
The rune aspect is also not doing much because you generally have just enough to work with without it anyway.
Not to mention it is grossly nerfed in pvp atm with both fallen crusader and pillar of frost being nerfed to 10% rather than keeping their 15%
Enjoying a class, and that class being inherently broken are 2 different things.
For example, Take double tap for hunters, this was inherently broken during the prepatch and allowed hunters to instantly kill anyone upon proc, this was fun for the hunter but not good for the reciever.
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That’s not the same “broken” that is referred here.
If it’s fun and effective => don’t touch it
If it’s fun but ineffective => tweak it so it become effective
If it’s not fun => rework it
I think DK is in case #2